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Thoughts?

A place for those new to this site. The more experienced users of this site tend to frequent the members only section more.
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HelpWithGOLO
Posts: 94
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Re: Thoughts?

Post by HelpWithGOLO »

That's a very good question. I've always had better luck having lasting friendships with girls as opposed to guys. I don't know what it is exactly. I just have a really hard time relating to other men. Always have. Most guys that I know are into sports, know lots about mechanical things, like to drink, etc. Stereotypical "guy" stuff. I've never been any of those. I get really, really self-conscious around other guys, like I'm "not good enough," if that makes sense. I always feel like I'm being silently judged and I get worried I'll do something to ruin the friendship. I may have self-sabotaged the relationships in the past and didn't even realize I was doing it. I've spent a lot of time, especially in my adult years, as a loner or with few to no friends. I've started to distrust other guys when I start getting close to them, waiting for them to find a reason to walk out of my life . Maybe it stems from my childhood. My father was very supportive and took care of us, but he could also be emotionally unavailable at times. It was very hard to talk him when I was having issues. I usually confided in my mom about my troubles. Most of my closest friends growing up were girls that lived nearby. It's just the way our neighborhood was. I never felt as close to my dad as I wish I could have been. We've gotten better in later years, but I still feel awkward at times around him. I guess I project that onto other men, too. I think it's the reason I've never wanted to have children. I feel like I'm not "dad" material. So I seek friendship and bonding with women because I'm so much more relaxed with them. I feel like I can relate to them. I guess the answer is yes, things would be much different if she was a man. I had a couple guy work friends leave unexpectedly in the past but it didn't hurt like this. I had a few women work friends leave but I wasn't attracted to them like I was my LO. But in nearly every case I got to say goodbye. That's part of the pain I feel, too. It hurt so intensely to have her just disappear on me after all the time we interacted. Like our friendship meant nothing. Like she abandoned me. Like she never cared about me at all. She came to mean so much to me and it broke my heart not to be able to have closure. I can't believe I'm still dwelling on it almost two months later. I've at least gotten to the point where I don't tear up every time thinking about it. In my head I can come up with dozens of legit reasons for why she wasn't there my last day. None have anything to do with me. But then along comes a feeling that she was mad at me or that she knew about my crush and was trying to avoid me so I couldn't try to keep in touch or some other irrational thought. I've even considered the idea that I might have been an LO for her and she was trying to break contact. Wishful thinking, I guess. I want to reach out to her to know that we're "okay", even if I won't see her again. While I don't know her as well as I wish I could've, I really do care about her a lot. I love her. I can't say it's "true" love, but I do feel very strongly about her. So much more than I should. I want her to be happy and well. I wish sometimes that I could be the one that makes her happy. I wish that I could see her give me that smile she always did that got my heart racing but have her light up because I came in the room. I loved how my name sounded when she said it. I spent so much time daydreaming about her telling me she loved me and vice versa. I daydreamed about what our life would be like. She has a child and I even daydreamed about how we would co-parent. I rationalized how I would learn to be a dad. Obviously I had a lot of sexual fantasies, too. I'll admit that I am very jealous of her fiancee and that's wrong. All of the things I imagined are wrong. She's not my wife and never will be. There's no chance of us having a romantic relationship despite my limerent mind's wishes, but I'm having a hard time letting go of the possibility of a friendship, too. I get lonely so very easily and when I do anxiety goes into overdrive. When I lose friends or a potential friendship doesn't pan out, I take it very personally, overthinking and obsessing over why I wasn't "good enough" for them. Maybe I try too hard to make friends, I don't know. I see other people who have tight friendships that have lasted for years and I feel sad that I'm unable to do so as well. I've tried so hard, believe me. Maybe I overthought everything with my LO because I wanted to have a friend so badly. Add in the fact that I found her extremely attractive and yes, sex was definitely a huge part of it, too. I've only ever dated one girl and that's my wife. My infatuation with my LO stemmed from a wondering of "what else is out there", I suppose. I admit it was exciting when I thought she might be into me, too. I guess deep down I'm still holding on to that feeling because of how good it made me feel. I may have mentioned before that this woman had every physical attribute that I find attractive (eye color, hair color, etc.) and even her name is one that I've always thought was really hot. We got along so well, too. Her kindness toward me when I needed a friend, physical attractiveness and how well we seemed to get along led to me developing the feelings I have for her. I know I need to stop pining. I keep saying that. We're not meant to be together. I know what the consequences would have been if we did get together. Our time is over. I want to leave her in the past but I also can't stand to leave things as they are. I just looked at that unsent email today and considered sending it again. What do I REALLY hope to accomplish by sending it? She's not going to suddenly tell me she is love with me. It won't change what happened. As much as it hurts to say, she's probably not interested in keeping touch. I would love to at least have her say that it was nice to meet me too and reciprocate my well wishes for the future. I'm so anxious about sending the message but I can't stop thinking about it. I'm afraid of getting heartbroken again. But thinking about all the "what if I did and it goes well" is killing me, too. It definitely would be A LOT easier to let her go if I wasn't so attracted to her. I need to find friends so I can stop thinking that she was my "last" chance at someone caring about me besides my wife and family. I just don't know how to overcome my anxieties.
You gave me a lot to think about. I have never thought about some of what I wrote above and certainly never talked to anyone besides my wife about it. There are obviously some things I wrote above that I cannot tell her, either. I clearly have things to work on. Thank you for making me see that. :) I welcome any opinions on what actions to take from here. I just can't think straight.
L-F
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Re: Thoughts?

Post by L-F »

And this is why writing, writing, writing is therapeutic even when one thinks they don't have anything to say and that's the beauty of unconscious thoughts spilling onto the page. Of course I'm not here to psychoanalyze it, that's your job. Whether you share it publicly or privately is an individual choice. Sharing here with other limerents gives them a chance to ask questions you may not have thought about, or it can be shared with a professional to help you unpack words that spill forth. Either way, it helps as you have pointed out.

Well, you are definitely open to looking at yourself which is evident and hugely beneficial. Everything will become clear in its own time, and IMO it's when the psyche is ready to listen. I certainly don't have answers for you, only questions.

Btw, the way you feel, and how you express yourself, takes me back to how I felt.

I hope this doesn't come off as patronizing, I think you're going great!
"And in the end, we were all just humans…Drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness." ~ F. Scott Fitzgerald
HelpWithGOLO
Posts: 94
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2023 10:06 pm
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United States of America

Re: Thoughts?

Post by HelpWithGOLO »

Thank you for your responses. It helps to be able to talk with someone who's been where I am now. It helps even more to know that there's hope of getting past this. I'm glad I decided to journal my feelings. I can go back and look at where I've been and learn from missteps along the way. Maybe others will read my notes and it can help them, too. At the very least, it feels good to get it out of my head. I hope I haven't overshared, and if I have, I hope it hasn't happened too often. I've been thinking about writing out the full story of my LE. Unfortunately I replay the whole thing every day so I remember all the details. It's my hope that maybe someone will learn from my early mistakes and not get as entrenched as I've become. Maybe I can identify the warning signs I ignored so I don't get hurt like this again.
Good news: I've managed to talk myself out of trying to contact her several times this week. Last night, my wife and I drove by where my LO and I used to work (it was on the way, I didn't make a special trip) and I waved ever so slightly, knowing she was probably there. I still miss her and wish her well. I hope she had a good night. Memories of course came to me but I managed them. I wanted to say something about her, but in respect to my wife I did not. I feel bad any time I mention a memory of my LO to her. It's hard to pretend this limerence isn't happening. Today we were out and a woman in front of us smiled just like she does. I had to pretend to my wife that I wasn't rattled by that. I'm starting to find that when any attractive woman in retail or fast food or whatever smiles at me and acts friendly, I immediately feel nervous. My mind instantly goes to "Careful. Remember how the last one broke your heart. This woman could, too." Every one of them reminds me of her, regardless of what they look like. And talking to them, no matter how pleasant the conversation, makes me feel sad inside. I keep thinking how our relationship started well and how it ended. I have to pretend to be friendly, faking my smile. Maybe my mind is trying to save me this time, I don't know. I can at least say I'm trying to fight back against this.
David
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Re: Thoughts?

Post by David »

It’s interesting reading your experience of growing up in your relationship with your father who sets the template for your relationship with the masculine. Sadly, there are so few men in the world who grow up with a healthy male role model, what I call healthy masculinity.


I so relate with what you write about your own experience of feeling like an outsider growing up.

For me, one of the best places I’ve learnt to develop a healthier relationship with my masculinity has been in the mankind project. It’s a US charity with global reach now that runs experiential weekends and ongoing groups for men. It has been a fabulous community for me to start learning to trust men more and develop healthier relationships with them, and by default with my own masculinity .

The world is desperately in need of more functional men to be better fathers both to themselves and their own children if they have them.

Men’s work is now one of my passions, and I spend a lot of my time coaching men.

I also believe men do better healing amongst other men whilst I had female therapist for many years, I do believe I would’ve done even better to find a healthy male father figure therapist. They are few and far between IMJ.

Therapy training does not touch on the gender differences and yet there are significant differences in how men and women process emotions and deal with difficult situations.
Purchase the 24 part video series on overcoming limerence - see https://limerence.thinkific.com/courses/healing-limerence
HelpWithGOLO
Posts: 94
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2023 10:06 pm
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United States of America

Re: Thoughts?

Post by HelpWithGOLO »

Thank you, David. I definitely need to find a way to start trusting other men as well as forming healthy friendships. I know it's going to take a lot of work but I need to try. I guess I never thought about all of this before I joined this site. There's a lot about myself that this experience has opened my eyes about. I guess that's one positive thing to think about. :)
David
Site Admin
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Re: Thoughts?

Post by David »

ive said many times, limerence is the gift that keeps on giving
Purchase the 24 part video series on overcoming limerence - see https://limerence.thinkific.com/courses/healing-limerence
HelpWithGOLO
Posts: 94
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2023 10:06 pm
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United States of America

Re: Thoughts?

Post by HelpWithGOLO »

I'm nearly 2 months into NC now. I wish I could say it's getting easier. I'm making progress, at least. Last week I realized that on one day she hadn't been on my mind at all for hours. It was such a good feeling. It didn't last but it gave me hope. But, a couple days later, I was picking up a restaurant delivery for my new job when I saw her sitting there in the lobby, alone, ten feet away. I walked by, knees wobbling, all choked up. She didn't look up. I couldn't breathe, could barely speak and couldn't focus on anything said to me. I kept looking back, praying so hard it was her. Finally!! My chance at closure. I went back, walked up to say hello....it wasn't her. God, I wish it had been. I told my wife, who was waiting outside, about it. As far as she knows I had a crush on this woman but that was it and it didn't mean anything (I'll explain more when I tell the whole story). She didn't say much other than that's what happens when you keep looking for someone. You'll see what you want to see. I know she doesn't want to talk any more about my crush. I'd feel the same way if roles were reversed. I try not to even refer to her by name. I never meant to cause this pain to my wife. I certainly can't tell her I'm even more nuts now over this other woman. Worse, it's all in MY head: my LO has done nothing wrong. Not that she would, but I haven't seen or talked to her for her to be able to give me reason to be like this. I don't think telling my wife could help, as much as I want to. Unfortunately this is a fight in my mind. Speaking of...
I had a dream last night where my LO came up to me at a party, gave me a huge hug and asked if I remembered her. Of course I do, I told her. She gave me that smile that I love and we walked around, catching up. We talked, we laughed, she even held my arm. Funny enough, I remember thinking this will NOT help me get over her but at least we are able to be friends for tonight. At one point, she turned and started singing along to some love song to me. I have no idea about her real life talents, but her voice was amazing. We noticed people starting to look our direction. She came up close. leaned in toward my ear. I got really, really nervous. Excuse the expression but it was something I've dreamed about. Then she whispered "I..love..that they think we're together." I gulped, trying to breathe with her face so close. I turned to face her, her face right there as she said "And I love.." Right there I woke up. Heart pounding out of control. I couldn't go back to sleep. Thanks a LOT, subconscious. Has anyone else had dreams like that about your LO? I've been thinking about it all day. I couldn't stop. It felt SO real. A huge part of me wishes it had been real. I had to pretend to go do something else in the other room at one point so I could get my emotions under control. I cried for a few moments. This is beyond ridiculous. I just want to stop this pointless obsession. There's no future in it. Yes, I feel love for her but I can't ever act on it. I care about her a lot and wonder how she's doing. But I could never leave my wife for her even if it was reciprocated. Ugh. At least I have had small moments of victory. I know it's still a very long road ahead. Thanks for reading this. I didn't mean for another long post but I needed to tell someone about this. This whole thing has been a nightmare.
L-F
Posts: 4500
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Re: Thoughts?

Post by L-F »

I'm not going to say what you should or shouldn't do...
Yet...
When I read your post something sounded like all other posts id read when it came to affairs.
HelpWithGOLO wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 5:22 am I don't think telling my wife could help, as much as I want to. Unfortunately this is a fight in my mind.
This is pretty much what I heard coming from the mouths of those in the throes of having an affair.

I'm not saying you are (having an affair). What I see is the same excuse used.

Even those having an affair could benefit from being honest with their partners. That's the minimum requirement in a relationship right? Honesty?

Best to talk to out with a Therapist if you have one, or PM David for his services?
"And in the end, we were all just humans…Drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness." ~ F. Scott Fitzgerald
L-F
Posts: 4500
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:55 am
United States of America

Re: Thoughts?

Post by L-F »

Besides my post above, I enjoy reading your posts. Good to see you journaling your thoughts.
"And in the end, we were all just humans…Drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness." ~ F. Scott Fitzgerald
HelpWithGOLO
Posts: 94
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2023 10:06 pm
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Re: Thoughts?

Post by HelpWithGOLO »

Thank you for your reply, L-F. In my current state of mind I didn't think about how what I said would sound. But the more I think on what you said, I have to agree. While my LO and I never did anything physical, my feelings for her have been way, way out of line, to put it very mildly. I've known that for so long but I've been trying to somehow justify it. But surely it's ok since I didn't act on it, right? I can love both women romantically as long as I love my wife more, right? I know the answer to both. Part of me just doesn't want to hear it. Can an emotional affair be one-sided? If so, I'm definitely having one. As far as I know she has no romantic feelings toward me. The fact that I sometimes want to believe she secretly did but was unable to tell me says it all, doesn't it? It really is a great thing that she did not feel the same toward me, or at least tell me if she did. Obviously I would've been more than happy to give in. I can't believe I'm saying that and, worse, that I mean it. I still find myself thinking of ways (excuses) to go see her one more time. I can't bring myself to tell my wife about all these feelings. I have to find some way, though. It's only going to get worse if I don't do something. I have all the guilt of being with my LO without the actual experience. As I am writing down my full LE experience, I've lost track of how many red flags I could see now that I breezed past at the time. I'm going to post it asap. It's ugly and I deeply regret that I messed up this badly. I need to tell the story, though. To remind myself of this lesson. To remind myself of what it has cost me so far. To let it be a cautionary tale to myself and anyone else who reads it. I've said it before but I'm so glad I found others who know what I'm going through. Even more importantly, they aren't hesitant to point out my screwing up that I can't seem to see. I need to be told the truth because I can't stop lying to myself. No, I need to be slapped in the face with the truth. Thank you for doing that.
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