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Fired Therapist

A place for those new to this site. The more experienced users of this site tend to frequent the members only section more.
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L-F
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Re: Fired Therapist

Post by L-F »

vesseloflight wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 8:15 pm
L-F wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 9:01 pm Of course speculation, yet, there's an intuitive component worth noting, as you have done.
Seeing this conversation between L-F and Asha999 really resonates!!! THIS is so similar to my experience. I get these words. You have no idea how this makes me feel more 'normal' if that were such a thing.
Naww so glad it makes you feel normal, and so you should!

Therapy has its place, yet, to me, it feels like therapy pathologies everything, like intuition, making a person feel like there is something wrong with them. Sometimes there is nothing wrong because being a human is so unbelievably complex! Anyway, glad you were able to see yourself somewhere in here because you are not alone, not here :)
"And in the end, we were all just humans…Drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness." ~ F. Scott Fitzgerald
Asha999
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Re: Fired Therapist

Post by Asha999 »

[/quote]

Seeing this conversation between L-F and Asha999 really resonates!!! THIS is so similar to my experience. I get these words. You have no idea how this makes me feel more 'normal' if that were such a thing.
[/quote]

What the what Vessel of Flight? How many of us are on this cruel and unusual “journey”? I feel marginally better knowing that but in some ways would hope this is a singularly torturous experience. Apparently not.

Well here’s the latest. I spent the week out of town for work. I entered a sport event on the weekend and it was unclear if it would be cancelled… LO encouraged me to go and spend time processing my stuff regardless (she’s in the know that my marriage counseling is something of a crap show, hubs is insanely angry I “don’t think our life or he is good enough.” LO is good, she’s had therapy for sure. So I go to work, love feeling super on it at work. And have a free night in LA and it’s pride week here. So… I decide I need to figure some stuff out. Two objectives, decentralize the importance of LO to see if I am interested in other women, and I guess answer that question generally… like is that why I’ve never had a loving romantic relationship. I spend a few hours excitedly sourcing my attire and need to go big… it’s LA after all. And I go to this pride party ALONE. I’m in my forties but looked 30s… and I was the straightest looking girl to ever show up to a lesbian party. And I’m too old for this shit. I lasted less than five minutes and tapped out went back to my hotel and cried. It’s not women, it’s LO… it’s her. This is the worst news ever. I want the feelings for something I cannot have gone so I don’t waste any more of my life on this.

Spent the next day with long time family friends. Spilled the whole sordid story… LO, marriage, fired therapist, lost BF. They correctly responded that that is all cumulatively A LOT and I’ve got some real emotional manipulation coming from a lot of different directions. They did also confirm to an extent that they see that my mother who everyone loves is really hard/aggressive/something with me. And they affirm it totally makes sense I’d have massive issues around rejection but hide it… I’m rock solid as far as anyone sees. They agree with me that it’s doubtful I’m misreading sexual tension with LO, but she’s not showing up. They suggest pulling back from her to make her chase me if she wants it… I don’t play these games. I want to sit down and cut the bullshit. They all say get out of my marriage asap, it’s obvious to every in that is a prison for me.

So trying to figure out next 24 hours. Kinda want to throw a talisman in the ocean before I head home to let go of LO. And come home and say to LO yeah I spent the weekend on an exploratory journey at pride to see if I’m in to women. I probably am but that community is not true to me. See if she has any reaction.

It’s not my place. I struggled for years not knowing where I fit in this world. And then I found my sport and team and friends and true happiness. And then they found LO and it set me back 20 years and rocked me to my core. I stopped looking for love and was ok with it, the idea I had it was transformative. But for me it exists only in the unrequited/impossible state always. So much progress to circle right back to the beginning of my being a happy confident person.
Last edited by Asha999 on Mon Jun 12, 2023 1:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
Asha999
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Re: Fired Therapist

Post by Asha999 »

Getting ready for the pride party I had my necklaces wound in this mess of a knot. I spent over an hour figuring it out. Pull one side and it gets worse, pull the other and it winds around itself and you can’t see what you should even be working. You can’t push it backwards or it just bends and crumples. The only way to fix it is to gently work loose the parts that trap the free ends. Patiently and carefully. It’s exactly this situation. I can figure out where to work this mess, I just keep pulling it tighter.
L-F
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Re: Fired Therapist

Post by L-F »

Asha999 wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2023 1:03 am It’s not women, it’s LO… it’s her.
Ditto. Sorry, it's the same for you as it would be easier, at least make more sense. Honestly, I don't care about gender. It's the person, the energy they bring and that's alright by me. The fantasy, any fantasy, hero, thoughts of life with LO, etc, will ALWAYS be better. In reality, it never is. The same goes for winning or becoming a self-made millionaire. In the end, it all boils down to the same thing, hard work. That rule applies to partnerships too.

So so sorry if you experience people disliking your status. Lesbians can be incredibly cruel to bi women. Funny, shouldn't they live by the "love is love" mantra?

Anyway, happy exploring whatever avenue you take whether it be career, sports, relationships, etc. We here believe in you. Well I do!
"And in the end, we were all just humans…Drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness." ~ F. Scott Fitzgerald
L-F
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Re: Fired Therapist

Post by L-F »

L-F wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2023 1:26 am The fantasy, any fantasy, hero, thoughts of life with LO, etc, will ALWAYS be better. In reality, it never is. The same goes for winning or becoming a self-made millionaire.
That probably didn't make sense. Visualising winning gives us this high, looks shiny, favorable, yet we neglect the effort it takes to get to this point. The same as being in fantasyland with LO, we neglect the everyday wear 'n tear on any, or all relationships.
"And in the end, we were all just humans…Drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness." ~ F. Scott Fitzgerald
Asha999
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Re: Fired Therapist

Post by Asha999 »

It does make sense L-F….frankly I’m getting very annoyed to have slipped back into LO fantasyland after our re-upping the connection of sorts. This has always felt like a push pull thing to me, but I’m always going off of brief little interactions at her workplace where she is busy. Is she short with me, joking with me, happy to see me? It’s all over the freaking map. Fired coach would say “you have no idea what is going on in her life so you have to tell her, etc.” True I don’t know, but I feel like she’s very hot and cold. She probably has good reasons. And this is where I think I need to listen to my own advice after the heartbreak of my prior experience of unrequited love (or my mothers advice)… there’s no such thing as mixed signals. If they are unsure stay away, whatever their reason is, timing, attraction, it’s not you it’s me etc…the result (heartbreak) is the same and it only gets worse the more you try to break through.

I spent a weekend away thinking mostly about LO, what I would tell LO about this thing I did, that place I went. Like WTF? For all of the very private and sensitive information I’ve opened up to her about she shown little to no reciprocation. She sucks at communication. If this were something other than an LO I would’ve fired her as a friend for non-performance months ago. I think I feel a little self-respect kicking in here helped along by my conversation with my friends this weekend… she’s getting a lot for me for very little on her part, and what I’m giving is a precious commodity. Loving attention, adulation, intimacy. I don’t give those things to anyone… for crying out loud I have my husband and half my friends begging for the same.

Right now I’m tumbling over a couple thoughts. One regarding my own obsessiveness. In many ways I use this is a super power…. Academics, work, my sport. Here it does absolutely nothing but damage. If I had done anything else with the amount of time I’ve spent thinking about LO in the last year I’d be an expert… should’ve put that energy to curing cancer or something. Does anybody try as part of the recovery using the thought of LO to go do something else? Like the thought comes in and you go do 40 push-ups or read 10 pages of the encyclopedia or something? Anything productive for instance.

My other thought is regarding disclosure. On one hand, I think disclosure may free me from this because it would clear up my lingering doubts. I feel a high probability of a disclosure ending up in a oh I like you, but it’s not you it’s me kind of deal. I mean whatever the answer is, it’s not to be or a probably would have been by now? Would getting that clarity get me out of this quicker? I think it would, but I would lose the self-respect of forcing someone to tell me point-blank they don’t love me. Not sure I need that in my life because after all isn’t it someone’s early refusal to love us consistently that puts us in a situation and becoming vulnerable to limerence in the first place?

My other thought is I keep feeling like I need to understand if this mutual attraction is real, so I know if I’m projecting a boatload of issues into something I truly believed was real. I have never felt in love with anyone, except in these two Limerence episodes. I don’t feel like this spells really good things for me moving forward and it would make me think twice about up, ending my entire existence to go find love somewhere. I think the sexuality question folds into this one also. Is that what I’ve been repressing?? The exploration of that one would actually be the easiest in some ways. Hence my party adventure last week. With the ulterior motive of giving me someone else to think about other than LO.

Thoughts on disclosure and diversions welcome.
marko
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Re: Fired Therapist

Post by marko »

Your post rings true of LE. Don't forget how inward this is, and they will not reciprocate to your need. I'm running it all in my head now. There they are all the time. I was mostly over one, and then bam! here I am again. I'm not for disclosing. I don't think it matters how the LO responds to us. If it's bad, we weigh why, concoct a new angle or again blame them. If they give some mediocre response, then the whole hope, and fantasy thing begins. I will have contact again this fall. I read too much into NC and now half dread when we cross paths. Brain is doing circles if she likes me or not. Why did she ignore me, then why did she wave bye. It's equally frustrating as we can't be more than aquaintances anyway. Previous LO was the same game, only she was a possiblilty and we worked together. Even when reciprocating it was as clear as mud. It's easy for us to replay it all and question. Then you want clarity and confirmation. Being obsessive over this is part of this. I know that doesn't help, but I can feel your yuck in this. I thought many things would end it. It makes me shut down to those I shouldn't. It robs purpose as you roll it over and over from high to low.
The diversions are where we go to settle it down. I find I negotiate that somehow I'll remain in their life. I feel so sad about having to finally give in and admit it will never be. Those things you want to know, may be what is hardest to let go in this. I wanted to be wanted, I wanted that person I could share deep stuff with, I wanted to be young. It's hard to let that possibilty go as then you have to return to what you dread. Then you float between fantasy and reality. The self torture begins to end when you give up--bit by bit, kicking and screaming, that what keeps you here. I see it, but can't yet.
L-F
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Re: Fired Therapist

Post by L-F »

Asha999 wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2023 2:13 am It does make sense L-F….frankly I’m getting very annoyed to have slipped back into LO fantasyland after our re-upping the connection of sorts. This has always felt like a push pull thing to me, but I’m always going off of brief little interactions at her workplace where she is busy. Is she short with me, joking with me, happy to see me? It’s all over the freaking map. Fired coach would say “you have no idea what is going on in her life so you have to tell her, etc.” True I don’t know, but I feel like she’s very hot and cold. She probably has good reasons. And this is where I think I need to listen to my own advice after the heartbreak of my prior experience of unrequited love (or my mothers advice)… there’s no such thing as mixed signals. If they are unsure stay away, whatever their reason is, timing, attraction, it’s not you it’s me etc…the result (heartbreak) is the same and it only gets worse the more you try to break through.

I spent a weekend away thinking mostly about LO, what I would tell LO about this thing I did, that place I went. Like WTF? For all of the very private and sensitive information I’ve opened up to her about she shown little to no reciprocation. She sucks at communication. If this were something other than an LO I would’ve fired her as a friend for non-performance months ago. I think I feel a little self-respect kicking in here helped along by my conversation with my friends this weekend… she’s getting a lot for me for very little on her part, and what I’m giving is a precious commodity. Loving attention, adulation, intimacy. I don’t give those things to anyone… for crying out loud I have my husband and half my friends begging for the same.

Right now I’m tumbling over a couple thoughts. One regarding my own obsessiveness. In many ways I use this is a super power…. Academics, work, my sport. Here it does absolutely nothing but damage. If I had done anything else with the amount of time I’ve spent thinking about LO in the last year I’d be an expert… should’ve put that energy to curing cancer or something. Does anybody try as part of the recovery using the thought of LO to go do something else? Like the thought comes in and you go do 40 push-ups or read 10 pages of the encyclopedia or something? Anything productive for instance.

My other thought is regarding disclosure. On one hand, I think disclosure may free me from this because it would clear up my lingering doubts. I feel a high probability of a disclosure ending up in a oh I like you, but it’s not you it’s me kind of deal. I mean whatever the answer is, it’s not to be or a probably would have been by now? Would getting that clarity get me out of this quicker? I think it would, but I would lose the self-respect of forcing someone to tell me point-blank they don’t love me. Not sure I need that in my life because after all isn’t it someone’s early refusal to love us consistently that puts us in a situation and becoming vulnerable to limerence in the first place?

My other thought is I keep feeling like I need to understand if this mutual attraction is real, so I know if I’m projecting a boatload of issues into something I truly believed was real. I have never felt in love with anyone, except in these two Limerence episodes. I don’t feel like this spells really good things for me moving forward and it would make me think twice about up, ending my entire existence to go find love somewhere. I think the sexuality question folds into this one also. Is that what I’ve been repressing?? The exploration of that one would actually be the easiest in some ways. Hence my party adventure last week. With the ulterior motive of giving me someone else to think about other than LO.

Thoughts on disclosure and diversions welcome.
I'm sorry, you leave me smiling (actually laughing but somehow that sounds cruel). I know the above oh so well!

I'll have to write out my thoughts in a separate post.
"And in the end, we were all just humans…Drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness." ~ F. Scott Fitzgerald
Asha999
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Re: Fired Therapist

Post by Asha999 »

I await these thoughts of schadenfreude LF :)) .

Other thought… ya know secrets are a gift of sorts. I have learned so much about how NOT to respond to someone tentatively exploring sexuality or their own mental imbalances I will have to write a book. One line every time I think about LO. It’ll take a couple weeks max.

You present a secrets like a gift, you’re sharing it with the recipient and you want a connection. Not necessarily gratitude or pleasure from them, just something. They should be accepted as if it’s an item of great significance.

Two things keep tripping me up about LO… that she told me as if it were a secret she went to Pride a couple months ago. This could or could not be a significant revelation. Judging by the atomic blast I felt in the room I thought it was. Second one, WTH after I said I was thinking leaving to train elsewhere did she come around weeks later and reach out asking to get together and talk? Like did she just happen to peruse 400 lines down her text messages and decide to send me a bunch of leading stuff on the one day when the entire country reliably half drunk? She did it when I was in reviver mode. Pulling away after she ignored by reach out.

So today after my fantasies of how I would tell her about my weekend away (and Pride) she happened to ask how stuff was. I told her my weekend was busy and kind of a lot with some experimental shit. “Did you do mushrooms?” Haha no but I should have was my answer. “Did you meet a boy?”

Oh I wanted to say, I’m kinda the opposite LO, I’m taking this the other direction.

But I stopped and just said, I’ll tell you about it later.

You want this monumental piece of information (even unknowingly), fucking show up and come and get it by asking so I can actually get a reaction. Because I told you once in a text and I don’t know if you even read it.

I don’t like hard to get games but since we are playing something I guess I need her to take a turn doing anything at all of significance to crack the door more.
L-F
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Re: Fired Therapist

Post by L-F »

Ooohhh those games!

I'm going to take a different approach, im going to play the devils advocate.


It does make sense L-F….frankly I’m getting very annoyed to have slipped back into LO fantasyland after our re-upping the connection of sorts. This has always felt like a push pull thing to me, but I’m always going off of brief little interactions at her workplace where she is busy. Is she short with me, joking with me, happy to see me? It’s all over the freaking map. Fired coach would say “you have no idea what is going on in her life so you have to tell her, etc.” True I don’t know, but I feel like she’s very hot and cold. She probably has good reasons.
And this is where I think I need to listen to my own advice after the heartbreak of my prior experience of unrequited love (or my mothers advice)…
there’s no such thing as mixed signals. If they are unsure stay away, love this! whatever their reason is, timing, attraction, it’s not you it’s me etc…the result (heartbreak) is the same and it only gets worse the more you try to break through.

I spent a weekend away thinking mostly about LO, what I would tell LO about this thing I did, that place I went. Like WTF?

Good, use that space you've created to question your motives. Its all about motives!. Do you feel you need her approval? If so, why?. Why would she care where you went and with whom. She might drop hints and act like she is interested, but in reality, could she be really good at her job of showing interest? I've heard some therapists say they think of their shopping list when listening to clients on an off day. Bad therapist ? Or human? I don't want to paint out therapists as being superbeings, when in fact they too have their own stuff to deal with and sometimes, those lines blur. You only have to Google stories written by therapists where they are being honest. It amazes me how clients expect them to be perfect. I've gone off topic. Anyway, she may be good at her job, and feign interest.


For all of the very private and sensitive information I’ve opened up to her about she shown little to no reciprocation. She sucks at communication. Or is it that she doesn't want to get drawn into a conversation that is irrelevant to her?
If this were something other than an LO I would’ve fired her as a friend for non-performance months ago. I think I feel a little self-respect kicking in here helped along by my conversation with my friends this weekend… she’s getting a lot for me for very little on her part (who is keeping the score?), and what I’m giving is a precious commodity (giving or expecting?). If i told you a story about someone giving more than they should, how does that read? As my husbsnd always tells me when im grumbling, who's problem is it? He repeats this simple question over and over until the penny drops.

Loving attention, adulation, intimacy. I don’t give those things to anyone… for crying out loud I have my husband and half my friends begging for the same.

Right now I’m tumbling over a couple thoughts. One regarding my own obsessiveness. In many ways I use this is a super power…. Academics, work, my sport. Here it does absolutely nothing but damage. If I had done anything else with the amount of time I’ve spent thinking about LO in the last year I’d be an expert… you and me both! should’ve put that energy to curing cancer or something. Does anybody try as part of the recovery using the thought of LO to go do something else? Like the thought comes in and you go do 40 push-ups or read 10 pages of the encyclopedia or something? Anything productive for instance.
Hey thats actually a good idea!. Replace a bad obsession with a healthier one!

My other thought is regarding disclosure. On one hand, I think disclosure may free me from this because it would clear up my lingering doubts (and possibly cause regret). I feel a high probability of a disclosure ending up in a oh I like you, but it’s not you it’s me kind of deal. I mean whatever the answer is, it’s not to be or a probably would have been by now? Would getting that clarity get me out of this quicker? Simple answer, NO! I think it would, but I would lose the self-respect of forcing someone to tell me point-blank they don’t love me mmhmm i think so. Not sure I need that in my life because after all isn’t it someone’s early refusal to love us consistently that puts us in a situation and becoming vulnerable to limerence in the first place?. Dont know, its too complex to answer in a single statement, though it is believed that childhood trauma does play a part.

My other thought is I keep feeling like I need to understand if this mutual attraction is real, so I know if I’m projecting a boatload of issues into something I truly believed was real. I have never felt in love with anyone, except in these two Limerence episodes. it's not real love.
I don’t feel like this spells really good things for me moving forward and it would make me think twice about up, ending my entire existence to go find love somewhere. You'll actually be in a better position but i can totally understand the apprehension.
I think the sexuality question folds into this one also. Is that what I’ve been repressing?? Perhaps.
The exploration of that one would actually be the easiest in some ways. Hence my party adventure last week. With the ulterior motive of giving me someone else to think about other than LO. In my situation, it was fake love. A small part of me felt ick. Needy. Knew it was wrong (not being with a woman, just trying to force it in order to prove a point). It just felt wrong, yet i ignored my inner truth. The same ick feeling i felt with my husband in our earlier years. Like a candle in the wind, never knowing who to cling to when the rain set in. But over the years we both grew into the relationship. At first it was desperation of sorts. With the f/f relationship it was to prove a point.

Thoughts on disclosure and diversions welcome.
Disclose if you must. Better to keep regret free because if she was really in to you, you would know.


The other thing is, can you talk to her as if she wasn't an LO? Tell her you are interested in women, said as a matter of fact, and leave it at that? If you know deep down that you are itching to tell her or disclose, find out what the itch is all about (look at your motives).
"And in the end, we were all just humans…Drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness." ~ F. Scott Fitzgerald
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