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Cults

Open forum ... what's on your mind? Want to vent or lament about your Limerent/Love Object? This is the ideal place.
Idiotic
Posts: 1622
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:58 am

Cults

Post by Idiotic » Sat May 11, 2019 1:07 pm

There's a lot in the news about this sex cult Nvxvm? I don't know how to spell it , like Nexium? Whatever , you guys know what I'm talking about . Some rich heiresses and some Hollywood actors are involved...
And I saw some news clips of this founder, Keith Raneire . He looks like a dweeb, not a charismatic leader that all these men and women are under the influence of.
And apparently most women were like well off and educated and everything. I find it hard to wrap my head around this.
They say they didn't realize they were being manipulated and abused until it was too late. It reminds me of how some people fall into really abusive relationships with narcs, and they don't even realize it. It takes certain type of vulnerable individuals ....
I wonder if there is more to it,like given the scale of these cults, that make people cut off their loved ones.

What do you guys think.
Boy...youre gonna carry that weight, carry that weight, a long time - Golden Slumbers(The Beatles)

Cookie
Posts: 539
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:08 pm
United States of America

Re: Cults

Post by Cookie » Sat May 11, 2019 3:30 pm

Idiotic wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 1:07 pm
And apparently most women were like well off and educated and everything. I find it hard to wrap my head around this.

They say they didn't realize they were being manipulated and abused until it was too late. It reminds me of how some people fall into really abusive relationships with narcs, and they don't even realize it. It takes certain type of vulnerable individuals ....

I wonder if there is more to it,like given the scale of these cults, that make people cut off their loved ones.

What do you guys think.
Interesting that you bring this up right now, as I've just been mulling over in my head (i.e., driving myself nuts) this past week thinking about how LO has everyone fooled with his caring, great dad, woman-friendly persona. His public facade. I wondered, "How can he fool so many people?" And then I thought about Jim Jones. David Koresh. Charles Manson. Okay, so the LO isn't a killer, but the manipulation tactics are identical.

In a nutshell, as we've all said on here about limerence: YOU LOSE YOURSELF.

And the cutting off of loved ones is very similar to what we do when all of our focus is on the LO, yes? We're in this bubble where everything is all about them. We are willing to risk and sacrifice our roots and families to pursue an ideal. And they know if they can get all of our focus onto them, they will be able to control us.

Well-off and well-educated, yes. Just goes to show that this plays on a different part of our brain. Even if our cognitive catches up to what's happening, the emotional overrides.
Female, age 52
Limerent for as long as I can remember
Have had 7 "real" LOs in the last 25 years
(...had a recent 8, but he was easy to release. Progress?!)
Last real LO is male, age 44, married AND has another GF!

JupiterTaco
Posts: 3649
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2015 6:12 pm
United States of America

Re: Cults

Post by JupiterTaco » Sat May 11, 2019 8:26 pm

Idiotic wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 1:07 pm
There's a lot in the news about this sex cult Nvxvm? I don't know how to spell it , like Nexium? Whatever , you guys know what I'm talking about . Some rich heiresses and some Hollywood actors are involved...
Creepy...

But you know one thing has always struck me about the idea over the years (and many movies I watched) about so-called "loved ones" being so mystified when people become enthralled in these dark forces; cults, gangs, drug rings, trafficking rings, even abusive/PD relationships, and it's like, do they really not see how this happens? I just don't think a well-balanced person would or could fall for something like this. When kids are raised to trust their instincts, perceptions, opinions, experiences and knowledge; when they're raised to understand, set and enforce their boundaries, and be good to themselves, that takes away the ammo these types of leaders would have over them, but that's just my opinion.
"If we forgive our fathers, what is left?" Thomas Builds The Fire, Smoke Signals

JohnDeux
Posts: 1874
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:42 pm

Re: Cults

Post by JohnDeux » Sun May 12, 2019 12:39 am

JupiterTaco wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 8:26 pm
......I just don't think a well-balanced person would or could fall for something like this. When kids are raised to trust their instincts, perceptions, opinions, experiences and knowledge; when they're raised to understand, set and enforce their boundaries, and be good to themselves, that takes away the ammo these types of leaders would have over them, but that's just my opinion.
I tend to agree with this. A verbose writing on the issue, yet hitting the nail fairly squarely on the head:

http://pairadocks.blogspot.com/2017/12/ ... nding.html
"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain...."~ The Wizard of Oz

Cookie
Posts: 539
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:08 pm
United States of America

Re: Cults

Post by Cookie » Sun May 12, 2019 1:42 am

JohnDeux wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 12:39 am
JupiterTaco wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 8:26 pm
......I just don't think a well-balanced person would or could fall for something like this. When kids are raised to trust their instincts, perceptions, opinions, experiences and knowledge; when they're raised to understand, set and enforce their boundaries, and be good to themselves, that takes away the ammo these types of leaders would have over them, but that's just my opinion.
I tend to agree with this. A verbose writing on the issue, yet hitting the nail fairly squarely on the head:

http://pairadocks.blogspot.com/2017/12/the-effects-treatment-of-double-binding.html
I also think it’s different for women than men, with early boundaries being a major factor but anthropomorphic factors — primarily the need to reproduce/nest/bond — taking over later. Add the instinct to nurture and empathize, as well as seeking spirituality at a higher rate than men.

That’s why so many cult leaders target women, or start by targeting them and then move onto husbands and other family members. Women outnumbered men at Jonestown 2 to 1. It’s interesting to read or watch interviews with female cultists that have escaped, because the question of “who you were before” is often asked.

I agree though that stronger boundaries from the get-go reduce susceptibility in general. And weird too that the term they use for recruiting new cult members is “love-bombing.” Same tactic as run-of-the-mill narcs.
Female, age 52
Limerent for as long as I can remember
Have had 7 "real" LOs in the last 25 years
(...had a recent 8, but he was easy to release. Progress?!)
Last real LO is male, age 44, married AND has another GF!

Idiotic
Posts: 1622
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:58 am

Re: Cults

Post by Idiotic » Sun May 12, 2019 6:38 pm

Hmmm ... You guys are right ...
We are surprised when people are part of weird cults, and think to ourselves that we can never be a part of all that. Perhaps it's a matter of degree, we have our own tiny cults, and some codependent relationships that are unreasonable , or under the guise of conventions, and we can't escape although we sometimes want to.

Another interesting thing I saw about this specific cult was that it started as a women's empowerment thing, and one of the girls , when asked why she agreed to the 'branding '( they were branded with laser on their pelvis). She said she trusted the other woman, who was in charge of this. And she felt she could go through this, along with the other girls who were subjected to it. Community support can be an unbelievable force, for these girls, it was the support and intimacy of the group rather than the charisma of the Leader.
Its crazy how they can all support each other and at the same time be manipulated by the head narc to work against each other when he requires. I cannot run a cult , it's too much work. ^#(^
Boy...youre gonna carry that weight, carry that weight, a long time - Golden Slumbers(The Beatles)

JupiterTaco
Posts: 3649
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2015 6:12 pm
United States of America

Re: Cults

Post by JupiterTaco » Sun May 12, 2019 7:28 pm

Society is a cult. That's what I think. #-o Will be reading up on this though, it sounds like something else!
Last edited by JupiterTaco on Sun May 12, 2019 7:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"If we forgive our fathers, what is left?" Thomas Builds The Fire, Smoke Signals

MrSpock
Posts: 761
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:39 pm
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Gender:
Argentina

Re: Cults

Post by MrSpock » Sun May 12, 2019 7:31 pm

What really, but really shocked me about this cult in particular was to found out that actress Allison Mack was highly involved. I known her from the character Chloe on the Smallville TV show. She always looked so sweet and nice, yet, according to the media, she was the one recruiting the other girls to be exploited.
She seemed to have come to her senses now and started to help the authorities dismantle the cult. In a few interviews I've seen, you can see how she herself developed a limerent-style deep codependency with the leader Keith Raniere (which did strike me as the classic charismatic cult leader when I first saw him). I found it very interesting to just look at her expressions before and after NXIVM, specially after the empowering-network fully developed into a sex cult. The whole thing reminds me of the dynamics of limerence quite a lot.

Idiotic
Posts: 1622
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:58 am

Re: Cults

Post by Idiotic » Sun May 12, 2019 8:25 pm

MrSpock wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 7:31 pm
which did strike me as the classic charismatic cult leader when I first saw him).
Really? But he looks so .... Dull??
Boy...youre gonna carry that weight, carry that weight, a long time - Golden Slumbers(The Beatles)

Idiotic
Posts: 1622
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:58 am

Re: Cults

Post by Idiotic » Sun May 12, 2019 8:26 pm

JupiterTaco wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 7:28 pm
Society is a cult.
Yeah I agree..
I'll join your cult if you plan to have one. We can force boundaries on the members =))
Boy...youre gonna carry that weight, carry that weight, a long time - Golden Slumbers(The Beatles)

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