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Spiritual causes of Limerence

Open forum ... what's on your mind? Want to vent or lament about your Limerent/Love Object? This is the ideal place.
DAG777
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Spiritual causes of Limerence

Post by DAG777 » Tue Oct 30, 2018 7:11 pm

Hello!

I remember how relieved I was when I found the name for my condition of limerence.

Perhaps you might feel that same way when you learn of the spiritual causes behind this terrible condition. I think it helps to know you are not completely responsible for what is happening. It might make things a little bit easier for you to get a grip on if you realize there are outside forces acting upon you and your will.

There is a way out. There is definitely a way out. I’m a witness. I never thought I would be free but I am today. I must share what I know.

https://www.deargodadvice.com/2018/10/l ... c.html?m=1Here is something for you to consider.

Idiotic
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Re: Spiritual causes of Limerence

Post by Idiotic » Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:02 am

What in the world is that Blog post !! :-o :-o :-o what I mean is. . . Its an interesting perspective...
Boy...youre gonna carry that weight, carry that weight, a long time - Golden Slumbers(The Beatles)

Spinnaker
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Re: Spiritual causes of Limerence

Post by Spinnaker » Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:06 am

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Last edited by Spinnaker on Sat Nov 03, 2018 4:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

Idiotic
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Re: Spiritual causes of Limerence

Post by Idiotic » Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:17 am

Oh My God( Spin! Can you try to read it once please. It's pretty revelatory .

DAG777
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Re: Spiritual causes of Limerence

Post by DAG777 » Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:41 pm

Thank you for checking it out. If a person is desperate enough to escape from the torture of limerence, they’ll be open to hearing any possible cures. And this is the cure of them all because it directly addresses the cause instead of just the symptoms.

Like I said before, I am incredibly empathetic to sufferers. I know the hell you’re in. I thought I would never escape. But I did. What kind of person would I be if I didn’t share the knowledge of how I got away, especially when someone directly asks me about it.

I thought this would be the perfect place to share, that’s all. Thanks for reading.

MrSpock
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Re: Spiritual causes of Limerence

Post by MrSpock » Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:07 pm

Hi DAG777,

I happen to have been raised within a spiritualist church, whose belief system includes for example the "invisible persons or people without a body" with whom we "wrestle in our interpersonal struggles". At such I've been interested in this subject all my life, and I quite agree that there is a major component in limerence (or any other addiction for that matter) directly related to that.
I've been meaning to write about it here, but never did because a proper, non-confusing exposition of this is quite a challenge in the limited space of a written forum. But since you now brought it up so directly, I think I should.

[warning... this is a bit long]

There are a number of different belief systems proposing this sort of thing, and while the details vary, sometimes significantly, there is still a shared idea that is worth exploring as it relates, as you said, to the understanding and handling of our condition.

The first component of this shared idea is the fact that we don't just interact and relate to other "people with a body" but also to other "invisible people without it" (to reuse your terms). The nature of that other people, and the way with interact with them varies significantly across the different belief systems, but that fundamental fact that we all keep interpersonal relationships with "them" does not.

The second component is the influence or effect that this "invisible" relationships have on us, specially when it comes to an addiction like limerence. Again, the details vary, but the fact that this effect is significant does not.

My own personal belief system is a combination of many I have came across, so the following ideas do not directly correlate with any of them in particular, but the core of most concepts can be found in any of them as you would see.

So, here is my own personal take on the topic...

One fundamental aspect of all our interpersonal relationships is that they are based on affinity, or resonance as I like to call it. Affinity is this sort of subtle web that connect us based on some essential aspect of our selves. While we can always directly, or consciously, select who we relate with, this subtle web tends to pull us together even unconsciously. This essential aspect of ourselves, which displays itself in the way we feel, in the things we think and do, sort of permanently radiates, attracting those alike (and rejecting those unalike).
This resonance-based grouping that get us together is pretty evident and easy to verify if we look at interpersonal relationships with other people. But, if we consider the proposition mentioned before that we also maintain interpersonal relationship with "invisible people" (disincarnate, souls, spirits, subtle energies... pick your term), how is that? well, is exactly the same and they are resonance-based just like it is with (normal) people.

Another fundamental aspect of all our interpersonal relationships, which is extensively studied in the field of transpersonal psychology, is the fact that whenever we do something together, what we do is not necessarily just the simple sum of individual actions. Or, putting it the other way around, individual actions are only truly individual when the actors are effectively and truly isolated. Any inter-action results in fact from a sort of entanglement among the actors, which itself can vary in degree or strength. The most significant aspect of this fundamental fact, is that interactions might be observed, specially from the outside, as if it came from a single entity as opposed to a composition of individual entities. If we look at a really small group like just two people, this might not be evident, but is quite easy to observe in large affine groups.
If we do something in/as a group (even if of just two people), and we reflect upon our own "individual" contribution, we might see how in effect it really is a group action, as if we somehow surrogated our own free will. That is, even observing from the inside is possible to see how a group becomes an entity in itself even though it is a composition of otherwise "individual" entities.
The fact that personal actions not in isolation can actually be transpersonal actions is the result of the resonance that defines and entangle us when in a relationship. Hence, the degree, or shift from personal to transpersonal is proportional to that level or strength of that resonance (or affinity). That is, within a non-resonant group, the individual actions are all there is, whereas in a highly resonant group, the individual actions seem undistinguished.
In simpler words, anything we feel, think and do is significantly influenced, even defined, by those with who we interrelate at the time of feeling, thinking and doing.

Now... if, on the one hand, we are only truly individual, and for instance our agency (free will) is only fully independent when acting in complete isolation, how and when are we effectively truly isolated?

This question would seem to have a trivial answer: when I'm alone and not talking to anyone, for example, not even watching people on TV, I'm fully isolated hence my thoughts and actions are completely individual. And this is the perfectly valid answer from the point of view of "conventional" belief systems, like materialism. However, from the point of view of the belief systems presented above, the answer would be that we are just never truly isolated for we are permanently engaged in a relationship with those "invisible people". But if that is indeed the case, how personal/individual it is what we feel, think and do? the answer from these belief systems is that is just never, ever truly personal/individual but always transpersonal, to a certain degree which depends on a number of factors.

To summarize so far: Interpersonal relationships directly affect what we feel, think and do. The "degree of agency" over ourselves can be subordinated to the "entity" that is the group from within which we are operating (but only if we do not override, as we can, the control of the entity, such as when I'm in an office and normally I'll just do what the boss tells me, unless I specifically decide not to). We are always engaged in interpersonal relationship not only with "normal" people but with "invisible" people as well, so even in seeming isolation we are still "transpersonally operating" from within a group.

What does any of that has to do with limerence (or any other addiction)?

Is trivial to see that, if we were living with people who are constantly telling us that we can't live without LO, that they are perfect, that we would never feel the same with anyone else, etc... they would immediately be recognized as a huge influence that exploits our condition to feed it as far as they can, for whatever purpose. Well, these belief systems proposes that in fact, when we do have such an exploitable condition, and the state of our emotions are there, we effectively do engage in a relationship with "invisible people" that is not far from the example. But being invisible, it just looks like is just all in our heads, while it is manifesting in our heads, right, but is real transpersonal interaction nonetheless.

Now, suppose that you consider that this is, or could be, real. That we really do engage in a relationship with "invisible people" (again to use the wording in the blog post) that is negatively feeding us to stick to the addiction and destructive behavior... what's next? what do we do with it?

That blog post offers a view on the nature of "those people", and a corresponding solution. I'd like to present an alternative view on both, based on the belief systems that I've adopted.

First of all--according to these belief systems--there is not such a thing as evil, not per se. There is only the fucked up human condition, whether alive or not [is actually more complicated than this, but for the sake of this post this is a perfectly valid approximation]. The distinction is fundamental because in the former, there is idea of an unresolvable negative drive, an unredeemable intention, whereas in the later, the negative is always the result of struggle, of suffering; and there is always the unsurfaced will to thrive and overcome the pain.
So, in my view, these "invisible people" that are, effectively, feeding our obsession, are not simple evil or just ill-intended. What they are is as fucked up as we are, and, this is fundamental, they need these crumbles of attention just as much as we do. In other words, they are just feeding us because they resonate with our condition since they suffer from it just as well.

If that is the case, then what to do?

Let's imagine one more time the situation I presented before, where I'm are living with people that are telling me all the time that I cannot live without LO, etc... But now imagine that I know and can see they are not just doing it because they want to hurt me, but because they too need this, that they too get the same highs I do, and so seek to experience it, just like me. What would I do in that case? one possibility could be to walk away or send them away so that I don't have to hear them anymore. If I can really do that, it would be simple and effective. But, what if that's not feasible? what I would do [or actually, what I effectively do] is, knowing that they suffer and feel the same, talk all of us out of this, not just me as if I were entirely alone and this were an individual experience.

mamasita
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Re: Spiritual causes of Limerence

Post by mamasita » Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:07 pm

DAG777
I admit that when I started reading, I cringed. Solving all of our troubles with the Good Book is basically what my childhood was made of so I was familiar with the viewpoint. I have to admit that seeing my limerence as evidence of demonic powers does help me see it as something to run far away from and ask God to help me with. :-? While I am no longer immersed into the religious abuse of my upbringing, I can certainly read and understand and take something positive from it. Since limerence for a long period felt so out of my control then it certainly makes sense that there are many aspects to it that are unseen. Limerence DID come to steal, kill, and destroy...ME. As I am making it to the other side I am still grateful that I've gone through it and been forced to grow up a bit.
Thank you!

DAG777
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Re: Spiritual causes of Limerence

Post by DAG777 » Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:34 pm

Hi MrSpock,

What an incredibly thoughtful post. I’ll have to read it once more to make sure I fully understood all you put forth, but my first reaction is yes, you’ve presented a whole other relevant layer to the notion of limerence.

Specifically I am reminded of the concept of what the Bible calls “the mystery” of a man and woman becoming one flesh. The idea of two becoming one not just on a physical level (the word flesh in this context/use encompasses more than corporal bodies), which can produce a new entity, a child, but also on the soul level – – the spiritual level – – wherein also a separate entity can be created.

Lots to ponder!

DAG777
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Re: Spiritual causes of Limerence

Post by DAG777 » Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:37 pm

Hi Mamasita,

Thank you for your reply. Sadly there are millions of people who have had your same type of experience in a religious upbringing. One of my favorite sayings is “don’t judge Christianity by Christians.” For the most part they certainly do nothing for the reputation of the Bible. Yet if a nonbeliever takes the principals set forth in the Bible and incorporates them into their self help book, it’s expected that book will become a bestseller. There are way too many examples to give, as I’m sure you know.

I wish you the best of luck in your journey. I am always careful to say that I am a Bible believer and follower of Jesus because unfortunately the name of Christianity/Christians has become quite a loaded label.
Be well!

*** i’m editing to add another thing. Unbelievers are much quicker to believe in the devil and witchcraft and all related notions. Just take a look at the onslaught of shows and stories in the media about satanic sacrifice and witchcraft. Ghost hunters. It is everywhere. The stories are effective in the unbelieving world because deep down even those with their eyes closed know there is reality to them. And unfortunately unbelievers are ahead of believers in that regard.

Acrobatica
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Re: Spiritual causes of Limerence

Post by Acrobatica » Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:57 pm

Mr. Spock - Thank you for your post. It has given me a lot to chew on. I too often theorize that there is a lot more to the world than what we can see, and do believe in different "energies" or "vibrations" that are a background to a lot of relationships. I was involved in a study where coaching relationships were studied by how the interaction occurred, in person, video-conferencing, and phone. Video-conferencing had the worst outcomes. In person, the best. I believe this is because of the lack of those "vibrations" (for lack of a better word) - of being in the same room.

I also had a weird experience. After you sent me that song, Mr. Spock, I was sitting in my car listening to it, and crying profusely, because this is what I do now. It was late at night in a pretty terrible neighborhood in the parking lot outside my gym. I notice someone yelling. I look out and see a car has pulled up next to mine, and a man has rolled down his window and is making noise. I am disoriented and open the window on the passenger side and ask what is wrong. He says, can you help a person get back to (area of town about 10 miles away.) I am feeling reams of evil pour off this person. I also think no way I am getting out of my car to do anything. I looked him in the eye and said, no, go away. He drove away. And then I drove away quickly so he couldn't come back. And, while this is a completely mundane phenomenon, I felt like I had drawn in some kind of evil spirit through pouring out misery wounded soul energy into the universe.

Over the summer as well, when I played with my friends in the park, a missionary fixated on me, always sought me out, and was always drawing me into conversations. He didn't disclose he was a missionary until maybe our fifth or sixth discussion, and never spoke about religion specifically. I also felt like he was drawn to me because of this wounded soul energy. I used to attract a lot of missionary types when I was younger.

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