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Can I truly move on this time?

Discussion about the way back.
Kim
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Can I truly move on this time?

Post by Kim » Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:09 pm

Yesterday I told LO there could be no more mixed signals between us. I told him no more flirting (recent examples on his part have been suggestive winking, pinching me on the butt, and a couple of full on hugs, just so you know I'm not imagining it). I attempted to spell out in no uncertain terms that there could be "no winking, no hugging, no touching", that I could not handle my feelings otherwise and that I must move on. I told him that I too would try not to send him mixed signals. This was my third attempt to iniate LC in 3 years of LE. We are coworkers (he's my supervisor) and NC is not possible unless one of us were to leave the job.

He said he understood and would "be more careful", and I believe he will be IF I can be strong enough to control my own demeanor towards him. My rational brain knows the way out of this lies within me (and my trust in God; I'm a Christian), but I'm so afraid I'm not strong enough to follow through. I crave his attention and have always left a crack open for him to get to me.

I feel very low and sad today. I have been finding some comfort reading in the "Moving On" section, especially this article because it describes my relationship with my DH.
We recently celebrated our 25th year of marriage and stage 3 in the article rings true for me.

http://menalive.com/stages-of-love/

Thanks for listening. Encouragement from those who have successfully moved on would be welcome. :)

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David
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Re: Can I truly move on this time?

Post by David » Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:47 pm

Kim wrote:
Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:09 pm
Yesterday I told LO there could be no more mixed signals between us. I told him no more flirting (recent examples on his part have been suggestive winking, pinching me on the butt, and a couple of full on hugs, just so you know I'm not imagining it). I attempted to spell out in no uncertain terms that there could be "no winking, no hugging, no touching", that I could not handle my feelings otherwise and that I must move on. I told him that I too would try not to send him mixed signals. This was my third attempt to iniate LC in 3 years of LE. We are coworkers (he's my supervisor) and NC is not possible unless one of us were to leave the job.
Kim, boundaires are something you set and impose, not something you request of another. You can ask LO till the cows comes come home and he may or may not comply. You set your boundaries and make it clear of the consequences when these are violated. No different to dealing with a child. It requires clean, clear, concise and consistent language. Its hard to do when weve had squiffy boundaries in the past (most folk here have) and redefining them is likely a challenge. All part of our growth.
"Until you make the unconscious conscious, it will direct your life and you will call it fate." - C.G. Jung

For Relationship Coaching/Therapy see www.loverelations.co.uk

bhicks
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Re: Can I truly move on this time?

Post by bhicks » Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:01 pm

David wrote:
Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:47 pm
Kim, boundaires are something you set and impose, not something you request of another. You can ask LO till the cows comes come home and he may or may not comply. You set your boundaries and make it clear of the consequences when these are violated. No different to dealing with a child. It requires clean, clear, concise and consistent language. Its hard to do when weve had squiffy boundaries in the past (most folk here have) and redefining them is likely a challenge. All part of our growth.
Hi Kim,
Similar situation here too. My LO is not a supervisor of me thankfully, so that must be extra difficult for you. I'm not one to give recommendations on boundaries, since I will enforce them, then go back to playing the games. But David's advice above I agree with. I'm back to setting boundaries, and it feels great. This is the only real way forward for me now, both for my continued recovery, and ultimately living my own life free of drama.
I would say, be easy on yourself if you do falter. But when you are about to "bite", just resist and do the opposite. Maybe journal how you feel when you don't bite. And if you do falter, journal how you feel, and how old you feel too? For me, during the height of my LE, I felt myself diminish back to childhood when I started playing games. Typically nowadays, I will be doing great, then feel some sympathy or pity for LO, and play, only to feel somewhat diminished, like I betrayed myself again. So congratulations on setting boundaries with your LO, by telling him no mixed signals.

Your post really helps me too, so lets do this together and no more games or mixed signals. :)

JohnDeux
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Re: Can I truly move on this time?

Post by JohnDeux » Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:09 pm

bhicks wrote:
Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:01 pm
.... I felt myself diminish back to childhood when I started playing games. Typically nowadays, I will be doing great, then feel some sympathy or pity for LO, and play, only to feel somewhat diminished, like I betrayed myself again.
This is a good discussion on boundary setting, which perhaps encompasses 'stance clarification' as well (?). There are still times when I feel my work venue to provide non-limerent game playing (between boss, sub-ordinates, other co-workers) and have little problem (though not 'none') setting boundaries there and making stances clear. With no LOs (thankfully!) in the mix, the boundary issues are still primarily and most problematic with SO, yet bhicks description fits that dynamic as well---feeling great, then fall back into "pity-pattern", then feel diminished and un-voiced/un-heard, then feeling self-betrayed. SO in a recent example tried to pin an occurrence within our home on my negligence, which normally.....even knowing she was wrong....I would have sheepishly agreed-to just to calm the waters. In a better example of 'stance clarification', I made it clear that what she was perceiving as negligence had a very reasonable basis. Initially, this just served to amp up her hostility, but I persevered with the explanation and with the 'stance' regarding my reasoning. In a strange transition, she seemed to then accept this with a more understanding tone, but the initiating hostility is the trigger for the old pattern of self-rebuke. So it's vigilance and self-awareness and mentally logging the things that slowly make a difference over time that seem to be breaking up these old patterns. But agreed,....so hard to stay the course and not slip up during periods when strength is lacking.
"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain...."~ The Wizard of Oz

AMA210
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Re: Can I truly move on this time?

Post by AMA210 » Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:29 pm

David wrote:
Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:47 pm
Kim wrote:
Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:09 pm
Yesterday I told LO there could be no more mixed signals between us. I told him no more flirting (recent examples on his part have been suggestive winking, pinching me on the butt, and a couple of full on hugs, just so you know I'm not imagining it). I attempted to spell out in no uncertain terms that there could be "no winking, no hugging, no touching", that I could not handle my feelings otherwise and that I must move on. I told him that I too would try not to send him mixed signals. This was my third attempt to iniate LC in 3 years of LE. We are coworkers (he's my supervisor) and NC is not possible unless one of us were to leave the job.
Kim, boundaires are something you set and impose, not something you request of another. You can ask LO till the cows comes come home and he may or may not comply. You set your boundaries and make it clear of the consequences when these are violated. No different to dealing with a child. It requires clean, clear, concise and consistent language. Its hard to do when weve had squiffy boundaries in the past (most folk here have) and redefining them is likely a challenge. All part of our growth.
Yes agreed. Asking my LO to stay inside for 10 minutes while I picked up my kid from school was "stupid" and met with "you can't tell me what to do". Even asking him to help me out as a friend was met with resistance. So, no we can't control their actions or their will. Only they can do that and we have to control our own.
What would be a consequence of her LO violating a boundary that she set?
LE was 22 months...LO catalyst for awakening, in which I chose divorce (after 27 years of marriage)
Very happy and content with my new beginning

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David
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Re: Can I truly move on this time?

Post by David » Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:26 am

AMA210 wrote:
Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:29 pm
What would be a consequence of her LO violating a boundary that she set?
Given its a work situation, report to HR. Simple, clean,clear and direct. And like dealing with children there needs to be consistent and carry through of consequences. Given how unconscious our LO's generally are, we are relating to their inner child.
"Until you make the unconscious conscious, it will direct your life and you will call it fate." - C.G. Jung

For Relationship Coaching/Therapy see www.loverelations.co.uk

Kim
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Re: Can I truly move on this time?

Post by Kim » Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:34 am

Thank you for the replies. Your responses have given me some good food for thought. I have been working on a list of boundaries for ME to adhere to, and if I overstep them I have only myself to blame. I think I am finally beginning to understand what people on here mean by "LO is all about ME, not LO ". Thank you again for the encouragement and advice.

David wrote:
Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:47 pm


Kim, boundaires are something you set and impose, not something you request of another. You can ask LO till the cows comes come home and he may or may not comply.


bhicks wrote:
Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:01 pm
I'm back to setting boundaries, and it feels great. This is the only real way forward for me now, both for my continued recovery, and ultimately living my own life free of drama.


Your post really helps me too, so lets do this together and no more games or mixed signals. :)

mrsjones
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Re: Can I truly move on this time?

Post by mrsjones » Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:04 am

Kim, I would LOVE to talk to a Christian woman about this issue of limerence!! I feel like an alien amongst other Christian women - like the only one in the world who is happily married yet drowning in desire for another man (or "men" as is the case for me from time to time). I really need help and support but I feel if I open up to anyone at church they're just going to give me a "flee temptation" type ultimatum which is not going to fix the problem for good- I know myself enough to know there will be someone else and someone after that...
It seems to me like it is a given that men struggle with lust and temptation toward unfaithfulness but I never once heard a woman open up about this in a church context.

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David
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Re: Can I truly move on this time?

Post by David » Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:53 am

mrsjones wrote:
Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:04 am
Kim, I would LOVE to talk to a Christian woman about this issue of limerence!! I feel like an alien amongst other Christian women - like the only one in the world who is happily married yet drowning in desire for another man (or "men" as is the case for me from time to time). I really need help and support but I feel if I open up to anyone at church they're just going to give me a "flee temptation" type ultimatum which is not going to fix the problem for good- I know myself enough to know there will be someone else and someone after that...
It seems to me like it is a given that men struggle with lust and temptation toward unfaithfulness but I never once heard a woman open up about this in a church context.
Dr Joe Beam has some excellent podcasts and articles from a Christian perspective relating to limerence - he does not differentiate between the sexes.
Heres one for starters: http://joebeam.com/blog/limerence
"Until you make the unconscious conscious, it will direct your life and you will call it fate." - C.G. Jung

For Relationship Coaching/Therapy see www.loverelations.co.uk

mrsjones
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Re: Can I truly move on this time?

Post by mrsjones » Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:48 pm

Thanks for that, David. I have listened to one of Jo's podcasts before and it was very interesting. It related quite specifically to limerence as a mutual thing leading to affairs. Does he have anything to say about more internalised kinds of issues? I have so far kept my struggles hidden (apart from the occasional impulsive flirtation or casually joking about it with friends like its nothing), but it is absolutely killing me on the inside.

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