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Schadenfreude

Want get to know each other outside of limerence? Here is an area for jokes, general chat, reflections in general or whatever else floats your boat.
NVTS
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Schadenfreude

Post by NVTS » Sat May 11, 2019 8:21 pm

My 17 yo daughter was grinning as she was looking at her phone. She proceeds to tell us that she is very happy about some youtuber she’s been following. He’s some kind of famous make up artist who was apparently exposed as a fraud and she says that she always found him to be arrogant. I told her that she was experiencing SCHADENFREUDE. She never heard the word before so I sent her a link to the definition.

I read a definition and description on another link. There was reference to the general concept that schadenfreude is inversely proportional to SELF ESTEEM!

I have over the years noticed that I can regale in the pain of others especially if I feel that I’ve been slighted by them. Kind of a : “ haha serves you right!” You piece of $&@&, mofo!!

I realize that this is passive/ aggressive and immature and now my daughter is experiencing it. I guess she does suffer from low self esteem just like her dad and thought it would be interesting to bring here.
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daydreamer
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Re: Schadenfreude

Post by daydreamer » Sat May 11, 2019 8:34 pm

sometimes i think that low self esteem is hereditary. i see that in my kids too. i can regulate mine some by positive thinking, but if a crisis comes, puff and it's gone for good.
I'm limerence free and I'm not afraid of it anymore. I learn something new about myself and life everyday. There is hope and so much more. NC works. Be free, be happy! In retrospect, the LE was about the best thing that happened in my life.

Idiotic
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Re: Schadenfreude

Post by Idiotic » Mon May 13, 2019 3:33 pm

Yeah I tend to think it's hereditary. My father has self esteem issues, and so do i and my sister. Sometimes I think my sister has it more intensely.... Cos I can tell when she's acting from insecurities.
When we were children we were naturally very shy and introverted, and always made to feel guilty for it by my parents, mostly my father. I still carry guilt and shame for being an introvert, part society ,but majorly from my Father's criticism. I see now that it was his own projection of shame and what he didn't like about himself, hating it in his children too.
Maybe he didn't feel good enough and didn't participate in the world, but the way this shame manifested for me was that I hated myself that I didn't want to go around like an extrovert , didn't want to sign up for things. Like I was wrong to be that way.
Now I don't know if I still would have had those issues, if my Dad acted different, or was absent from my life.
I don't know much about the science of genetics, but how does information like this manifest itself? I mean how is a thing like low self esteem coded in my genes? I thought it was more a nurture thing, but I'm beginning to think it's more than that though.
I keep dancing on my own - Robyn

daydreamer
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Re: Schadenfreude

Post by daydreamer » Tue May 14, 2019 3:14 am

Idiotic wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 3:33 pm
Yeah I tend to think it's hereditary.
...
I mean how is a thing like low self esteem coded in my genes? I thought it was more a nurture thing, but I'm beginning to think it's more than that though.
i'm not an expert on this, but i think predisposition to low self esteem is within the high neuroticism trait, and that is partially hereditary. this paper supports that concept: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2757924/

and this paper shows heritability of neuroticism indeed: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26171985
According to twin studies, the Big Five personality traits have substantial heritable components explaining 40-60% of the variance
...
We found significant and substantial heritability estimates for neuroticism (15%, s.e. = 0.08, P = 0.04) and openness (21%, s.e. = 0.08, P < 0.01), but not for extraversion, agreeableness and conscientiousness.
I'm limerence free and I'm not afraid of it anymore. I learn something new about myself and life everyday. There is hope and so much more. NC works. Be free, be happy! In retrospect, the LE was about the best thing that happened in my life.

Idiotic
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Re: Schadenfreude

Post by Idiotic » Tue May 14, 2019 9:51 am

When they study heritability how far back do they go?
Do they mean primarily parents?
I was having a conversation with my friend and she was wondering why she was prone to feeling depressed or low self esteem whenever things started going bad in the slightest. And she said her parents are completely different from her , and they have been supportive throughout her childhood, and I know this cos I know her parents well too. Her siblings are very different from her too, although her brother does tend to be anxious and has some image issues.
I keep dancing on my own - Robyn

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palimpalim
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Re: Schadenfreude

Post by palimpalim » Tue May 14, 2019 11:40 am

Hi there,

It is very hard to keep this topic short and simple, but I hope some of you might find this interesting! I sure did.

Yes, studies stating it might be partially hereditary usually come to the conclusion by comparing with siblings and parerts. Unfortunately, many of those studies are not significant or suffer from various unknown disturbance variable (if that even is the English word for it xD). This is due to the fact that it is very difficult to get appropriate test subjects, and if possible masses of them. You can't possibly set such a setting up since it would be dramatically unethical for very obvious reasons.
Famous are those studies anlyzing identical twins that did not grow up together or in general children who did not live with their parents. But they are rare and hard to do.

BUT: Studies stating there might be a hereditary factor state this only as an interpretation. We are very far from actually knowing such things. Those studies' outcomes are usually only correlations with this and this significance level. It is babysteps in trying to explain human nature, but as I said, we are still so far away from truth that it can be depressing from time to time.

Yes, there are suggestions low self esteem correlates with neuroticism which is one of the big five character traits.

Yes, many things such as depression tend to run in families.

Yes, depression for example can have many causes and some of them are predominantly biological, meaning medication might be needed, and this neurotransmittel-imbalance might be inherited.

BUT: For a very long time now we know that genes can skip generations, being recessive. And we know that genes with certain predispositions can be "switched on" by environment, or they are not, meaning they will never "break out". On the other side the environment can be a protective thing to rise resilience, which is the psychological resistance and self-healing ability of an individual.
This mechanism of genes and environment is called nature and nurture. We are being influences by our genes, pre- peri- and postnata influences and our upbringing, even our diet plays a role!
And there are certain believers in science saying we might even have influence on our genes (and gonades) over our lifetime (meaingn influences from the environment). I can not say wether I support this or not since it still is pretty esoterical thinking, but there are so many things in science we do not understand. And there always have been things people called esoterical that we now have scientific understanding of and actually believe to be facts. So I keep myself open to this.

You are a sum of all your genes and ALL your experiences and environment and how you interprete these things for yourself. My favourite example is the rollercoaster, all of us experience the same bodily reaction, but some are horrified and some are thrilled and have happy anticipation.

You are not bound to be what your genes might predispose for you.

BTW: Schadenfreude is a German word. And when it comes to psychology, we got pretty good words I miss in English. My favourite is "Fremdschämen", it means you feel ashamed watching somebody doing something they should be ashamed of. Thing of Jeremy Kyle show or something like that, you get the clue ;)

Hope this was interesting for some of you :)

Idiotic
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Re: Schadenfreude

Post by Idiotic » Tue May 14, 2019 8:19 pm

ThanKs for the informative post PalimPalim(i like your name).

Like they say, life is what you make with the cards you are dealt.
For some a lucky hand , and for most not so lucky hand.
I keep dancing on my own - Robyn

Idiotic
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Re: Schadenfreude

Post by Idiotic » Fri May 17, 2019 9:25 am

Because for some reason i want to waste my life i watched this video...
I think your daughter was talking about this particular Makeup artist ... There was an article about him on the internet , and its been popping up here and there so i guess this is the same one.
This guy was became famous since around 18.
I wonder if the internet was part of his 'personality problem' that people are complaining about. In our teens we naturally crave attention , even the most self effacing of us, teenagers are kind of self-absorbed and thats part of development i think. To have those needs and reactions and to have them amplified by a thousand times by being exposed to the internet will definitely have an adverse effect at that age. Its detrimental to the mental health of even those adults who didnt grow with that kind of internet exposure in their youth, now its like we are facing a crisis, and thisll play out in full force when these kids enter their thirties (If the world doesnt end by then). People complain about millenials, there is a whole other thing coming with this generation.

Oh here is that expose' video

Last edited by Idiotic on Fri May 17, 2019 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I keep dancing on my own - Robyn

Idiotic
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Re: Schadenfreude

Post by Idiotic » Fri May 17, 2019 9:43 am

One more cos ive lost it

I keep dancing on my own - Robyn

NVTS
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Re: Schadenfreude

Post by NVTS » Fri May 17, 2019 3:47 pm

Thanks Idiotic, I do believe this is the situation she was gloating about.

I pretty sure that you are considerably younger than I am and your observation regarding the maturation of the younger generations and all the attendant psychlogical problems that they will manifest are very concerning.

The sea change in socializing from our parents generation to the latest is staggering. I pray for them especially my own kids, they inherited some f’d up genes and socializing patterns———BUT——— because I’m starting to understand these things I can and will impart my discoveries in due time so they can at least have awareness and do their own research.
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