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In the meantime, I hate to keep beating this point, but I've now watched the entire show The L Word. Jenny Schecter, the formerly-closeted lesbian who emerges in the show as a writer with a traumatic past, ends up dead in the end. She had become quite insufferable amongst her friend group in the later seasons, so it's apparently still a joke in the GLBT community, who killed Jenny Schecter (although some people think she might've killed herself).
I just had to revisit that since I can't find my old thread about The L Word right now. It is quite interesting to watch as Jenny first transforms into what appears to be her true self, and then becomes an insufferable Cluster B type. It seems to happen almost immediately after her book which is somewhat based on her own life, becomes famous, but maybe that is just an illusion. Possibly she was either good at hiding who she was, or she thought she truly deserved special treatment later on.
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Piper's relationship with her family was shaky at best before she went to prison. Now in prison, Piper's mother makes it a point to ignore what is happening to Piper, focusing on her pregnant sister and free-spirited brother and refusing to accept that Piper knows she did something to get put behind bars and now must live with it.
The prison inmates are generally segregated by race and age and Piper is encouraged to stick with "her own". The corrections supervisor Sam is somewhat conservative and squeamish about the rampant lesbianism inside the prison. He advises Piper early on that if she remembers what is important to her on the outside and stays away from the lesbians, she'll be fine. Sam is married to a younger Russian mail-order bride who makes it clear that she feels stuck with him. Her and her mother frequently speak Russian despite Sam's pleas that they speak English once in awhile around him. He frequently relies on Piper to be somewhat of a do-gooder behind bars, not knowing exactly how involved she was with pushing tons of illegal drugs worldwide pre-prison days.
When Alex is mysteriously sent to the same prison, Piper's nagging inner question of whether or not Alex turned her in, is answered. Piper, whom before thought that Alex must've turned her in, did everything she could to get away from that lifestyle and that woman. Upon finding out that Alex indeed did not name her, Piper's unfinished relationship with Alex begs to be continued. At the same time, she seems to feel she is letting everyone on the outside down by her urges to return to Alex.
Red is the middle-aged Russian boss lady in prison who runs the kitchen with an iron fist. Piper first tangles with her after unwittingly criticizing the kitchen food on her first day, for which she is starved until she can literally make up for the insult. Red and Piper clash throughout the show considering their extremely different personality types. Piper is largely the do-gooder she looks, always wanting to do the right thing. It's clear that Red on the other hand, has tried her hand at being nice over the years, considering her inability to integrate into her Russian-American community before prison, which appears to be something that always stuck with her. For Red, being stern and ruthless gets her what she wants.
At one point in the show, Piper gets a brief release in which Red asks her to check on her business for her. Piper sees that it's closed, and tells Red that it appears that everything is fine. Red eventually discovers that it is closed, and her husband and sons had been lying to her for awhile about still running their family business. When Piper is confronted she states that she was just trying to be nice. This seems to be the first time that Piper realizes after all of her time in prison, that being nice isn't always the best thing.
Crazy Eyes, a wide-eyed black woman in prison, takes a liking to Piper while she's still new, and fails to realize that Piper is not interested. Piper tries many ways to get the hint across while "being nice" and not actually telling her. Crazy Eyes follows her around, smiling, leaving notes and being loudly possessive of Piper. Piper finally tells her she's in love with someone else fearing the worst, and Crazy Eyes pretty much walks away.
Lorna is the friendly supervised van-driver who takes Piper and her other two new inmates to prison, sharing the general ropes with them and making them feel welcome. She often alludes to her loving man on the outside, but he never visits. It comes out that not only is Lorna not seeing someone, but the man she's been telling everyone she's seeing, is the man she was put away for stalking and she still won't leave him alone. In the meantime she has an ongoing sexual relationship with Nicky, the lesbian rebel drug addict.
Nicky has a hostile relationship with her mother, who does not seem to see that her own parenting was what helped push Nicky down the path to where she is. She tells Nicky at one point pre-prison that she's got to get over her Mom-blaming/hating, as she sits sick in her hospital bed after a drug overdose. She admits to Lorna that she has "Mommy issues" during a discussion of their sex life.
Dayanara "Daya" is greeted on her first day in prison with Piper, by a slap from her narcissistic mother Aleida, who then turns and storms away. It becomes clear soon that Daya has not had the kind of mothering she needed. She walks the halls of the prison with a lost look in her eyes and catches the attention of new corrections officer Bennett, who seems as lost as she is, trying to find his place amongst the more assertive corrections officer and the aggressive officer Mendez. A silent mutual attraction festers between Daya and Bennett.
On her first day, Daya is reamed by a friend of her mother's, Gloria, for not speaking Spanish. Gloria refuses to believe that her mother never taught her Spanish. She briefly converses with Piper in Spanish and promptly says "See? Fucking white girl speaks Spanish!" Daya may have her mother in prison but her mother Aleida has formed a new family in prison with her two adopted roommates, Marisol and Maria. Aleida triangulates them constantly.
A good example, one of many, early on of Aleida's severe narcissism is pre-prison when she leaves her many children at home with Daya while she's going on a date, and tells Daya to order the girls a pizza if they're hungry, and says "I'm eating oysters, bitches!" while storming out. She also accuses Daya of trying to steal her macho partner. Daya eventually sleeps with him, although it's unclear whether she wanted to or just thought her mother thought she was doing it, so she might as well.
In prison, when Aleida gets wind of the ensuing affair between Daya and Bennett, she sneaks into the storage room in Daya's place and attempts to seduce Bennett with a look of hostility in her eyes that almost says "you better want this!" In another episode, when Daya's pregnancy has become obvious and she's accused the abusive Mendez of sexual harassment, Aleida is meeting with Mendez's mother in the visiting room. Mendez's mother wants to adopt "Daya and Mendez's" baby "so that it doesn't turn out like" and Aleida says "Say it. Like her mother?" with what looks like it could be a look of hostility that this woman could judge her daughter, but actually appears to be a look of cold amusement at what the woman might say.
To be continued...
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Early on in the show, Kelso and Jackie are typical narcissists. Both think they're beautiful and rely on their looks and popularity (and Jackie on her dad's wealth),and they seem to have that to capitulate their quite shallow relationship on. Kelso doesn't have much upstairs and that's saying it lightly. He admits variously throughout the show that he's expecting to rely on his looks to get anywhere he gets in life. Jackie is a cheerleader who is part of the group only because of the fact that she's dating Kelso.
Later on when Fez's first girlfriend crazy Caroline is accepted into the group, Jackie is angry that she is accepted and the group helped Fez and Caroline get together when Jackie had to "kiss butt" to be accepted for months without being included. Jackie is also clearly jealous of Fez's few girlfriends, though she has no actual interest in dating him due to his status as a foreigner.
It's clear throughout the show that Eric Forman, whose house is the constant setting of the show, has a bare tolerance for Jackie, taking at least four seasons to finally admit that he and Jackie are friends and even then they turn on each other in an instant when it comes out that Eric knew about Jackie kissing her "beta-male-type" boss at the cheese stand and used it to blackmail Jackie instead of telling Kelso.
Jackie's rules for relationships are clear in her own mind. She's a "bitch". Jackie comes first. Jackie wears the pants (figuratively) and she controls Michael Kelso easily. Kelso, though he goes along with her most of the time, complains about her, mimics her, and many times cheats on her with their classmate Pam Macy and Forman's sister Lori. He tells his friends throughout the show that he's going to dump Jackie but it never actually happens until the fourth season.
When anybody attempts to bring to light Jackie's wrongdoings in her relationship or dealings with other people, Jackie can easily point out things they're doing worse, which seems to be the hallmark of a PD individual. Kelso is also a perfect victim for Jackie due to his lack of intelligence, inability to think on his feet and his desperate need for approval and rule by his fragile, oversized ego.
Jackie develops crushes on and dates both Fez and Hyde throughout the nine seasons of the show. Jackie often turns to Fez for an ego boost and being that they have many things in common, such as their love of dancing, disco and fashion, it often works in her favor to run off to Fez during a disagreement with Kelso, particularly when trying to keep the upper hand. One example of this is during a roller-disco contest in which Jackie and Fez compete as a couple and Kelso is thwarted by Donna in his attempts to throw a marble in Fez's way and cost them the contest. He puts the marble in his mouth to get it away from Donna and accidentally swallows it. When Jackie gets drunk and comes onto Fez, he struggles really hard not to take advantage of her vulnerable state knowing he wants her so badly but that it's wrong to give into his impulses. Jackie sobers up and that is the end of that.
Jackie has an ongoing crush on the formidable Hyde. She attends prom with him early on in the show while Kelso is going with Pam Macy. They switch dates later on the in episode and Kelso and Jackie make up. Jackie however sees first hand the hostile home life Hyde endures. "Gross Edna", Hyde's mother, makes an appearance in the first season when Fez joins Hyde on "career day" at the high school making lunch for the high schoolers. She spends the day delegating work, arguing with her son, stirring food with a cigarette in her hand, coughing over the food and complaining about the "damn health codes". Edna has a gross disregard for society, directing Fez to throw compromised food in the chili "bucket", encouraging her son to carry a fake ID, and defending herself for putting her son in various compromising situations with strange men as a young boy. She also blames him for ruining her position as a runner-up for Miss Wisconsin by Edna becoming pregnant with him.
Edna is also heard screaming at Hyde that everybody is going to laugh at him at the prom, and also saying that "nothing in this house is yours!" when he's thinking about running off to New York with a travelling punk chick. Throughout the show, Jackie tries to manipulate Hyde into doing what she wants, but what works on Kelso doesn't work on Hyde. Hyde has a distain for anything pop-culture, mainstream, feminine, etc. and he's not afraid to show it. Eventually Jackie changes her tactics opening herself up to whatever Hyde wants to do, which doesn't work either. Eventually Jackie buys a bag of weed from her housekeeper and tells Hyde she just wants to be with him. When a police officer approaches them to arrest Jackie for the weed, Hyde takes the fall for her, which almost gets him kicked out of the Forman house, where he was staying at that time.
Jackie takes this as proof that Hyde loves her, and she loves the vulnerable position she thinks Hyde is in, that he's going to beg her for her help, that her dad's wealth is going to get him out of his predicament and that he'll be grateful and be together forever. Donna foils the plan by telling the Formans. The Formans don't tell Hyde what happened, just that he can stay.
Eric and Donna are THE couple in the show. They are the rock amongst their friends, the duo of reason, stability and acceptance, although they both come from questionable families themselves. Donna's mother Midge also doesn't have much of a brain and is caught up in the 70s wave of feminism, wanting to join the working, free women of the new world but not knowing where to start. Her friendship with Kitty, the content nurse/housewife who works only out of necessity doesn't exactly help her. Midge and her husband Bob can be seen throughout the first two seasons playing power games with each other, even in one episode, playing their daughter off of each other. They try swinging, sleeping around, separating, dating other people, spicing up their sex lives, remarrying and tantric sex to name a few things, to get the spice back in their marriage, but Bob's endearingly misogynistic views clash with Midge's need to be seen as an equal.
Bob and Red have an interesting dynamic too. Red is largely avoidant and openly dismissive of male companionship while Bob is eager to make friends with his next-door neighbor and Kitty and Midge are friends also. Kitty tries throughout the show to integrate the couple with her and her husband. In fact, Kitty's knowledge that Red needs companionship outside of his marriage leads her to try to get friends for Red, including their pastor. While Kitty has in mind that the two men will talk out their problems and support each other, the men bond over their love of sports to Kitty's displeasure. Both have to deal with disapproving sets of in-laws and clash over that.
Red and Kitty are interesting because my mother actually told me that Grandpa, Grandma L, one of my uncles and my mom were like all of the characters in this show, the same dynamic and everything. Red rules the house with an iron fist, often going gently on his troublemaking daughter Lori as Kitty watches on with scrutiny. The opposite dynamic occurs between Kitty and her son Eric. Red is frequently seen ribbing his son on "getting out of my house" while handing his daughter money. Kitty asks Lori when she's going to get a job/go back to school, etc. while telling Red that if he doesn't take it easier on Eric, he's going to leave and never visit them again, which Red is blatantly okay with.
In one episode Red tells Eric he loves him, which surprises him. Eric runs out of the room and tells his mother about it. Kitty, who'd often joked about Eric's ability to rub his father the wrong way, is instantly filled with hope that he's becoming soft and developing feelings. Eventually it comes out that Red was drugged and doesn't remember telling Eric he loved him. At this moment, Eric goes into the room to tell his father he loves him. Kitty throws the contents of a bowl of Jello to distract Red as Eric utters his words. Kitty desperately tells him "he was drugged!" Eric then stares as his father sits and reacts with hostility and tells him to go to his room.
Later on, Red tells him that the words "I love you" are only to be uttered when a man is drunk, in trouble with no way out, which means he's drunk, etc so that the words "I love you" are a given which shouldn't be uttered by men. Eric insists his father is trying to tell him he loves him. Red says that he's drunk. Eric insists his point, jokingly asking Red to be his Valentine, at which point Red angrily tells him to go to his room.
The show is complete with 70s sensationalism, with the president visiting, blue-collar Red being chosen to speak, and several of the kids ruining it by running streaking through a crowd. Red knows his son was involved. Big-box sales come to their town, factories shut down, Red is laid off, the family faces economic uncertainty and Red finds himself having to reinvent himself from the "hardworking" post-WWII "hardworking, loyal, dependable" persona all of his peers had adapted after military careers fighting for their country. Red becomes a supervisor in a department store and struggles with wanting more for his son. Bob's authentic business is run out by cheap international products.
Their somewhat-sheltered view of many facets of the world around them, such as marijuana culture, other cultures and the future are peppered with their misconceptions of what it means to be a foreigner like Fez, in which they either make up a name for him, call him "the friend", and refer to his homeland as "wherever he's from". Either way, Fez is always pictured as "the help".
It's also quite disturbing Red, Kitty and Bob, their reactions when they find out their kids are having sex. And Midge when she approaches Donna like a friend asking "how it was" (which Donna predicted happening).
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Peggy, angry at the truth, decides to confront Nancy and tell Dale, despite Hank's pleas not to. As Peggy goes over to the house to tell Dale, she sees how Dale is with Joseph and that overall, they're a happy family, and changes her mind. Before that, Peggy had been making sympathetic appearances to Dale which he mistook as her being interested in him.
Dale is an avoidant conspiracy theorist, who spends much of his time investigating different phenomenon and is on the paranoid side to say the least. In one episode, Dale is obsessed with his brand new lawn mower, and ties a rope that would move if anybody got near it. Up late one night, the rope nicks and he goes up to find Nancy helping John Redcorn sneak through the garage window. John Redcorn, thinking he is caught, says "Dale, this is not the way I wanted you to find out!" Dale tells him to leave his mower alone, to which John goes "is he kidding?" to Nancy. Dale goes "I don't kid around about my mower! Now get in there and start massaging my wife!" John Redcorn goes "he's really taking the fun out of this!"
In another episode, John gives Joseph a hunting knife that has been passed down through his family and Dale thinks nothing of it. In another episode Dale and Nancy unwittingly get invited to a couples dinner with Hank and Peggy. Nancy initially turns him down because she normally spends Saturday nights with John. John encourages her to go to the dinner, saying he needs a night off. Nancy gets angry at him and storms off. From the dinner, she attempts to call John. She later dances with Dale, who'd hidden his dancing skills and that, plus Nancy's drinking, helps Nancy relax and rekindle interest in her husband and they sleep together.
The next morning, Nancy regrets it, attempts to call John, and complains to Peggy that "fourteen years with John and she throws it away for one night of reckless passion" with her husband. To which Peggy replies that she's in favor of monogamy. The couples again go out, skating, and Dale and Nancy's passion ignites again.
John is sneaking into the window and finds Nancy, who normally sleeps in a separate bed from her husband, curled up with Dale and demands to know why he's in her bed. Dale wakes up not knowing how he was woken up and goes off to get his cigarettes. He finds someone in the room, implying that he didn't know it was John and knocks him out with a lamp. Dale is extremely guilty and pleads him not to sue. Later on he goes to John's trailer to apologize and it's clear the level of John's distain for him as Dale asks if they can "go smoke some peace pipe". Dale jumps on board to help John get what is his regarding his rights as a native person, and John treats his headaches.
At this time, the couples had another date set for paddle-boating. Nancy finds herself alone in a paddle boat, musing angrily about how this is why she needs two men, because one is constantly disappointing her. When she goes to John's house to make up with John and finds Dale there and that he went there for her, she decides not to continue the affair and she and John say goodbye.
Although it later comes out in the show that John fathered another baby at the same time Nancy was pregnant with Joseph and she is miffed about it when she finds out, it is clear in following episodes after Nancy and John's affair ends, the pain that he's feeling in losing her. Joseph becomes interested in this new "half-sister" that he doesn't know is his half-sister. Dale thinks both children are his, and that aliens stole his sperm to impregnate the other woman.
Hank and Peggy seem like the traditional Texas family, though Peggy leans on the feminist side at times and they clash over their differences in beliefs, particularly around Peggy's interests and goals. Their son Bobby is quite smart, though it appears at times that Hank doesn't really think so, or that he's a normal kid.
Hank has an uneasy relationship with his niece Luanne. Luanne is living with the Hills after the catastrophic breakup of her own FOO, and Hank disapproves of her boyfriend and the fact that he has to realign her on track to a productive adulthood. When their neighbor Connie (Kahn Jr.) is staying with the family and gets her first period and Hank finds himself having to deal with it, he doesn't take it well, even telling Bobby not to ask him about these things.
Hank seems squeamish and extremely anxious about anything feminine. As you watch the show, it's easy to see why. His father Cotton, despite being half his size, is a malignant narcissist womanizer and war vet, and Hank deals with the fallout every day of how his father treated his mother. He has some adjusting to his mother's new Jewish love interest. Cotton has knocked up a mousy woman barely half his age. Peggy warms up to Cotton after he helps her back to physical health by passing on his incredibly harsh self-discipline.
Their friend and neighbor Bill is grieving over his wife Lenore who left him, at times eventually dressing up as her to make his neighbors think she's come back to him, after them trying to tell him the truth, that she was gone. Bill bottoms out in one episode when he shows up to Hank's business party dressed as Lenore and causes a wave of hostility amongst the Texas men who don't know what's going on. Hank quickly dresses as a woman himself and calls it a theme party to protect his friend.
In a later episode, when Bill starts dating a senator, Lenore comes back, much to everyone's disdain, and tries to get him back.
In one episode, young Bobby befriends a narcissistic older girl who kisses him, and then tells him they are just friends. When Hank attempts to ask the girl about her and Bobby's age difference, the girl turns it around on him, asking him why he never holds hands with his wife. Peggy, though in agreement about Bobby's new friend, is miffed that she wants more affection from Hank. It is seen throughout the show, that when the couple occasionally do share affection in public, they are shamed by someone.
When Bobby confronts her after going to a party with her where she is dancing with other guys, she ends things with Bobby and leaves him heartbroken. He eats a 72 oz steak to rebound (the girl was a vegetarian), with her sitting at a nearby table. He later starts seeing his neighbor Connie, and he gets annoyed that Connie doesn't feel comfortable telling her dad about them since her dad wants her to marry a Laotian guy. Despite this, the family appears to enjoy Bobby's company, even teaching him some of their language.
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The reruns of the original series are always on some station ( in the USA). Today I saw an episode for the first time. It’s called “The Chaser” episode 31 from 1960.
I think all of us can relate to it on some level. I did have fantasies about LO falling for me as bad as I had for her and I was indeed spooked by them.
U may be able to get them on Netflix or hulu.
LO- married 48,work colleagues
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Anyway, I ask because that episode seems to me to be focused on someone experiencing limerence. This guy that appeared in an early episode of the series comes back and asks if the people behind the show, with their resources, would be willing to help him track down someone he claims to have dated 50 years ago. Beyond saying that they legitimate end up dedicating weeks of their time with him helping him find his "LO," (though no one in the show refers to it that way) I won't ruin what happens in it, but for a show that's normally a silly 20 minute comedy, this episode was like an hour and a half documentary of sorts and was actually genuinely moving/touching/sad. But this guy basically has been obsessing over his LO since they broke up (and hadn't seen her in like 40-50 years) and never married or got over here. I think it got nominated for an Emmy and there were multiple articles written about it being one of the best episodes of TV for the year, which I think it was, but I think it's especially interesting for the fact that the main subject of it seems, at least to me, to be pretty clearly about someone experiencing limerence.
I don't know how parts of the episode would come across if you hadn't ever watched the show, there are some pretty "weird" sidetracks to the main plot, but just wondering if anyone else had seen or heard about it.
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Turns out she also has another stalker, in her close support group.
So this bland chick has two stalkers. It's an interesting watch for us Limerants and might make us realize our 'ick'. Watch it if you can.
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Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
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