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Affairs of the heart

Anything here related to matters sexual
LostAgain
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Re: Affairs of the heart

Post by LostAgain » Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:47 pm

Interesting.Can you identify where you perceived the special bond?
Is there some apparent deficit in your make up which she filled?

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LisaTranscending
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Re: Affairs of the heart

Post by LisaTranscending » Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:09 pm

wow...powerful stuff.

so my knee jerk reaction to the term"emotional rape" was...I don't think so. always being of the mind that you can't be treated any way without your consent (and I have a growing aversion towards the whole "victim" mindset and label) which is another controversial discourse altogether.

but then I thought about that. and there are times when we are all vulnerable and might be "victims" of emotional "abuse." let's face it, if there's emotional abuse or "rape" we have been raped since childhood. that is really when we don't have a standard of consent built up in us to rely on. that's when most emotional rapes occur and really do effect the personality. "you aren't this..you are this"....guilt and affection definitely used heavy handed to get the child to conform to the parents wishes. love used rather recklessly. it conjured up a memory for me. I was very young. my parents were sitting in the living room as I entered. (happy-go-lucky) unsuspecting me. they were engaged in some strange narc behavior between them or discussion because when I waltzed in there, this transpired:

"Lisa."
"Yes mommy and daddy?"
"Who do you love more, mommy or daddy?" (I remember it was my father who put forth this ludicrous question)

now...I don't even remember how old I was. but I remember being struck with this question. standing there before the two people who were like gods to me, but never comparing them which was the better god. so I stood there. and stood there. and stood there. and in my frustration, I began to cry hysterically. and they both became contrite and said in soothing tones, "Oh, you don't have to answer that honey." and then they felt guilty and tried to make it up to me with some sweet treat.


was that a rape? or was that two grown up people acting stupid in front of a kid? let's not forget our parents are human beings. they say stupid things. they forget that the brain of the little one they are dealing with isn't completely formed and are sometimes....well reckless (unconscious).

the degree with which a person is really qualified to raise a child would require years of psychoanalysis, masters degrees in child development, and seven years in Tibet. that would be the requirement for parenthood in order to raise a proper and normal child. (and even then some neurosis of the parent may slip in and taint the upbringing)

are these rapes? I mean, some children really are raped. are those kids more prone to brainwashing and manipulation. well, that's clinically proven.
so to the degree in which our personalities haven't really emerged, may be the degree to which we all fall prey to limerence?

JohnDeux
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Re: Affairs of the heart

Post by JohnDeux » Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:49 pm

LisaTranscending wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:09 pm
..... so I stood there. and stood there. and stood there. and in my frustration, I began to cry hysterically.


....so to the degree in which our personalities haven't really emerged, may be the degree to which we all fall prey to limerence?
That sounds horrible, Lisa, and I can imagine the emotional confusion. Mistakes are made and so often it's the reaction in the aftermath that can make the difference, as long as too much repetition of the mistakes themselves don't pile too high. One of my favorite passages here of the 'mistake' made by a member of the Yequana indigenous tribe in South America when said member experimented with building a crib in which to contain his child:

"It had cost a good deal of labor and Tududu looked quite pleased with himself when he lopped off the last protuberant stick end. He cast about for Cananasinyuwana, his son, who had taken his first step about a week earlier. No sooner had Tududu sighted the tot than he snatched him up and put him triumphantly in the new invention. Cananasinyuwana stood uncomprehending for a few seconds at the center, then made a move to one side, turned about, and realized that he was trapped. In an instant he was screaming a message of utter horror, a sound rarely heard from children of his society. It was unequivocal. The playpen was wrong, unsuitable for human babies. Tududu's continuum sense, as strong as any Yequana's, did not hesitate in interpreting the shrieks of his son. He pulled him out and let him run away to find his mother, who comforted him for the minutes he needed to counteract the shock before he was ready to go out again to play. Tududu accepted the failure of his experiment without question; after a moment's last look at his handiwork, he smashed the play-pen to bits with an ax, and as the wood he had used was green, he did not gain so much as a pile of firewood from his morning's efforts. I have no doubt that it was neither the first nor the last such invention by a Yequana, but their continuum sense would never permit so patent an error to last long." Jean Liedloff, "The Continuum Concept".

As for the other line in the quotation above, it would have been obscured to me in earlier days, but I think a strong case can be made for the way that you envisioned the role of our emerged personalities in boundary definition....and the the extent to which one might become limerent.
"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain...."~ The Wizard of Oz

EXlfjb
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Re: Affairs of the heart

Post by EXlfjb » Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:27 pm

I agree with JD, that is an awful situation to be placed in Lisa. I can empathize with you there. Your story resonates... it reminds me of mine.

Had I had the support that I've gained from this site, I would have cut my limerent years in half, and saved myself years of research.
Last edited by EXlfjb on Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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LisaTranscending
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Re: Affairs of the heart

Post by LisaTranscending » Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:03 am

limerent friend...your childhood story was so intense. that little kid...well...she's a survivor. and it shows in the time you take and the kindness you give here in the forum to really care about others.

and that was nice what you wrote about the families whose parents are really naturally good at giving their kids what they need and showing them respect. of course there are families like that. (and yes without having to go to Tibet) I guess what i was doing was defending my parents on some level. (still loyal!)

my loyalty wasn't just to my parents...but also the hope that my children are somehow loyal to me for all the mistakes I've made. i didn't mean them. they are just my shortcomings. I hope they have the heart and wisdom to know this about me. and I think I have to have this wisdom myself for my own parents, just because that also will make my life better.

you hear about the power of forgiveness. I believe in it. you won't have to forgive really good parents. but, if your parents fell short, no matter how short, forgiveness doesn't have to mean accepting abuse (rape), or some evil, but it just means that whatever it is they can't achieve, however short they actually fall in regards to kindness or humility or the greater human qualities....and acknowledging that forgiveness is not full acceptance of these failings....but living within them as much as possible without animosity, for one's own peace of mind, and for moving forward so we can live a more fulfilling life. I think that is the succor.. the gift of forgiveness. and it's another human mystery about it's timing and how it actually works itself out in a human lifetime.

EXlfjb
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Re: Affairs of the heart

Post by EXlfjb » Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:25 am

Thank you Lisa for your kind words :)

Life is difficult and beautiful all at the same time :-D
Last edited by EXlfjb on Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

Spinnaker
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Re: Affairs of the heart

Post by Spinnaker » Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:34 am

Your description of that heartbreaking and pivotal moment of your childhood moved me to tears. I'm so sorry you had to endure that awful mess. My heart goes out to you, my limerent friend. Thank you for sharing. I'm sure it's tough bringing back those memories of chaos and sadness.
Last edited by Spinnaker on Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

EXlfjb
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Re: Affairs of the heart

Post by EXlfjb » Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:27 pm

Aww sorry Lisa and Spinnaker, I didn't intend to upset anyone with my history :ymhug:
Last edited by EXlfjb on Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:30 am, edited 2 times in total.

EXlfjb
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Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2016 10:12 am
United States of America

Re: Affairs of the heart

Post by EXlfjb » Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:43 pm

I've always been stubborn, and I've always known what I needed (I certainly didn't want a relationship like my parents).
Last edited by EXlfjb on Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

JohnDeux
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Re: Affairs of the heart

Post by JohnDeux » Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:20 pm

@L-F via Spinnaker: Re-"I recall you describing how young you were when you met your DH. Your description got me thinking that you were somewhat like me in your assertive, take the reigns approach and decisiveness regarding your long term needs/requirements for married life with your DH."

I can't recall that just now L-F, but I assume it was relatively young. Pretty amazing that you were able to find someone willing to do the work with you along the way. L-F, you noted "I had a long list of needs and one of them was to be treated like an equal." One of the things SO and I struggle with (that 'struggle list' is pretty long actually :-\ ) is that we share the duties in this way as well......except when it's a "guy thing"....like working on the car, cultivating the garden, anything involving electrical work from jump-starting a car to figuring out which breaker was tripped. When I get reminded for the umpteenth time that we *both* are capable of running the vacuum, it seems like a never ending game of "remember the discussion when...." in order to go over the relative contribution to various kinds of tasks. Obviously there's a lot more here, but I'm just wondering how you and SO deal(t) with situations where it's best left up to one or the other....any conflicts here? Or maybe just a matter of apply 'acceptance' to the inevitable conflict??...
"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain...."~ The Wizard of Oz

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