Major life change, alcoholism and limerence

[LisaTranscending]

Now, in the case at hand, it is the very premise that he is nothing but an abuser what I completely questioned. In my experience, abusers are malign narcs pretty much in their right mind. But mentally ill, depressed alcoholics might display abusive behaviors at times, but it is the underlying intention that struggles to surface what is completely different from that of a straight up narc abuser, and is worth fighting for.

So, if you break free from the toxic relationship as a first step, those driving forces based on power and control naturally dissipates. Once they do, any other underlying force that might have existed in the relationship, such a love as in this case, can now surface. And from that distance, they can operate without compromising a bit of self-love (as it happens from within the relationship).

wonderful. now the question arises once the power struggle dissipates from regret and loss and missing that other person and the "good times" (if that happens even) this love that comes to the surface must be navigated as completely new terrain. for the old paradigm has completely fallen away from being exposed to the light of truth. true love can withstand these tests. selfish love will perish.

What I am struggling with at the moment in my DH, is extreme limerence. He is going through the 'stages' described and at the moment is in emotional abuse mode. Do you want to be 'mean' to your spouse when in limerence? I'm told that's characteristic of it. Having been kind and supportive to start with, I have now drawn the line and am giving him total space, only responding when he shows proper caring (love) behaviour. He is coming off alcohol too so it's difficult to know where the limerence ends and that starts. I suspect at the moment he is under stress to behave well with his LO so I am getting the emotional abuse. WHICH I AM NOT ACCEPTING!
I'm willing to help him for the reasons that Mr Spock describes above, but I agree this should not be at my expense, that is what I'm working on.

it's not that you want to be "mean" to your spouse when in limerence, but careful that you are not enabling his disregard for your feelings through his limerence by forgiving him his limerence carte blanche. it is not a characteristic of limerence to be completely disconnected from your current partner who isn't the LO. quite contrary. deep feelings of guilt and confusion are some characteristics of limerence for the limerent subject as it pertains to their feelings for another while married or in relationship with the non-LO.

usually the disconnect one feels for the current partner who is not the LO has been a longstanding disconnect (otherwise limerence doesn't happen is my theory).

so the LO is the remedy to that disconnect. however, it is never an excuse to stray from the current partner into a love affair with the LO at the expense of the current partner, but something to be dealt with together through marriage counseling from two willing partners. without that kind of cooperation, there isn't the respect inherent in true love to keep the relationship together. limerence is not a Get Out Of Marriage Free Card. it's a warning sign that the relationship lacks the communication, respect and love that's needed for the relationship to grow and be meaningful for both partners.

[L-F]

deep feelings of guilt and confusion are some characteristics of limerence for the limerent subject as it pertains to their feelings for another while married or in relationship with the non-LO.

usually the disconnect one feels for the current partner who is not the LO has been a longstanding disconnect (otherwise limerence doesn't happen is my theory).

so the LO is the remedy to that disconnect. however, it is never an excuse to stray from the current partner into a love affair with the LO at the expense of the current partner, but something to be dealt with together through marriage counseling from two willing partners. without that kind of cooperation, there isn't the respect inherent in true love to keep the relationship together. limerence is not a Get Out Of Marriage Free Card. it's a warning sign that the relationship lacks the communication, respect and love that's needed for the relationship to grow and be meaningful for both partners.

I agree, mostly. The only part I'm not convinced about, and only because it relates to my situation, is that limerence is the warning sign that the relationship lacks communication. I've come to realise, that limerence was my warning sign for other things such as childhood wounds. SO and I were happy, so much so that it is the only reason why I'd want to turn back the clock. However, what is done is done. And as a result of limerence, I've had the chance to take a closer look at my wounds and do something about them. That said, I completely agree with you in this [forestcat's] situation.

[Forestcat1]

Hello, thanks L-F and LisaTranscending. I agree with a lot of what you say but in my particular situation L-F is right about the limerence being an excuse to ignore childhood wounds (in the case of both my DH and his LO). The childhood wound in my DH is abandonment, lack of worth and therefore love; every bad life event he has re-opens the wound. His alcoholism was an escape from it and now he thinks the LO is the cure because she is offering him so much love and support. But my point is that her 'love' is not for him, it's for what he does for her and vice versa. She wouldn't be showing me that sort of 'love' if I was in the same situation as him and willing to help her would she? In fact, when i did show her support, she walked all over me by pursuing my DH, no guilt whatsoever. Wanting the best for someone whatever they do/don't do for you is the selfless love that can only be given when you have self love, and it's lasting. I think this is what both my DH and his LO can't do because they have no self love.

I do not accept his limerence or give him carte blanche with it, I just try to understand it and put a positive influence on it. I have already told my DH that I'm willing to be there for him, but I will not accept being a doormat. He reacted positively to that and started trying to help me out with things - is it wrong that I should encourage the good in someone? I am the sort of person that is bored, purposeless if I don't have a challenge in life and my challenge is always to do good and improve things. Is that wrong, am I self loathing because I want to do good rather than look after my own interests all the time? I agree there is a fine line between co-dependency and a healthy wish to help, but I feel as long as I can get that balance right I can be a positive force in my own life and other people's, whether I decide it's worth continuing to help my DH or not.

I realise this probably sounds very arrogant, but it's the truth. I think it's possible to get closer to self love, or maybe self respect is a better term, and be a positive influence on life when people learn not be thinking of their own self interest all the time. But I agree that the balance between self love and self flagellation (self loathing) is a tough call.

[AnjiTheDestroyer]

nice discussion.

nearly missed it Spock! and read it so late after you posting it.

so for this above reason and the fact that my reply will be more of a digression to this thread than anything else, I'll create a single thread where this discussion that's now on three dt threads can be conducted.

link:
limerence.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=79&t=4553

but i can't promise quick pace both bc i am currently rather too occupied and also bc this is a topic that i am simply still feeling my way into.

cheers!

[Scs]

“ I saw people who had gotten so absorbed in other prople’ s problems they didn’t have time to identify or solve their own. These were people who had cared so deeply, and often destructively, about other people that they have forgotten how to care about themself. The CODEPENDENTS felt responsible for so much because the people around them felt responsible for so little. [.....]
I saw victim of alcoholism who did not drink but where nonetheless victimised by alcohol. I saw victims struggling desperately to gain some kind of power over their perpetrators.[CODEPENDENTS] hurt as much or more [...]

.. they have gone through their pain without the anaesthetising effects of alcohol or other drugs, or the other high states achieved by people with compulsive disorders. And the pain that comes from loving someone who’s is in trouble can be profound.”( Melodie Bettie , codependent no more’, 5)
This helped me a lot

[Scs]

“The chemically dependant partner numbs the feelings and the non-abuser is doubled over in pain-relieved only by anger and occasional fantasies” Janet Woitoz from “the book”coDependency, an emerging issue.”