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What to do

Find support here if your partner is in limerence, having an affair or love addicted.
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What to do

Post by marko » Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:50 pm

Even though the LO forced this truth out I'm stuck. I dont love or like my wife. Our 15+ years of nothing didn't cause that, I didn't to begin with. It was an LE infatuation moment and got her pregnant so we married. Until it faded I did ok, but now remember pulling away as she did. Not knowing what LE is, I just thought my mind would change. It is what it is and I dumped all the love for her into the kids. So even when I think back I was only trying to keep the LE feeling going vs. building love or intimacy. As this LE dies, it comes back that the feelings are the same.

With a counseling session looming I just feel torn. I've told my wife I feel little and with that vast period of time, why would I feel much different? I don't look fondly back and wish for the spark. I search my mind for something different, but there isn't. I feel like if the issues (attachment, trust, self blah, etc.) were addressed, I wouldn't suddenly like her--what is that spark anyway? I guess what I'm saying is that as I've uncovered me and enough truth to choke on, I don't see her as any more than the neighbor. Same with the LO, doesn't matter. I think the experience also revolves around that inability to make the critical connection. Looks like I need a lot of work.

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Re: What to do

Post by Chuck » Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:42 pm

Wow, that's a tough one Marko.

Obviously it's well beyond my reach to offer any actual advice, but I will reiterate this piece from my own story.

While limerent, my wife became a secondary player in my mind. One of several obstacles that would eventually need to be worked around once I had established my new relationship with LO, the woman I was always intended to find and spend the rest of my adult life with.

As I worked through limerence and came to understand its root causes, inside my own head as well as inside my marriage, I was ultimately able to move on and do the work needed. I revisited myself and who I wanted to be going forward, and I and my SO talked out what we each needed to provide the other with the kind of relationship we both wanted.

I guess my point is that limerence, by its very nature, shuts down a lot of our other feelings for the people who should be important to us. Sometimes that part isn't any more real than the crazy feelings of love that drive the thing. If you are doing counselling and having the tough conversations with your wife , then maybe there is a better relationship that can be built on the foundation of the old one. At least, once you have exhausted all of the options and are really satisfied that you have given it every chance to work, you can make whatever decision comes next with a clear conscience. Not every marriage can be (or should be) saved, but I think every marriage deserves a chance.

There. Did that muddy the waters enough for you? Thanks for nothing?

You're welcome. :ymsmug:
"In the end, only three things matter: how much you loved, how gently you lived, and how gracefully you let go of things not meant for you."
Buddhist saying

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Re: What to do

Post by mamasita » Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:53 pm

I have felt how you felt. Like, "I gave you everything, thanks for nothing."
It got so painful that the hard conversations HAD to be had. I was afraid of the backlash and the pain I would cause but I was in too much pain to continue faking my way through. It was harsh but I told my DH that I don't love him like he loves me. I am just living this life but there is no passion for it. I need to see what else is out there. For me. DH was angry, terrified, you name it. He wanted my plan of action and I had none. Just that I am unhappy and something is about to give. That is the, the moment where healing began. When I was honest about me.

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Re: What to do

Post by WonkyBrainThe2nd » Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:02 pm

I can relate to the feelings of "what's the point?" that you've mentioned in your posts, having been there (and, like you, I had a partner that others said they didn't like to be around). For me, when I played the relationship forward in my head and pictured how it could be in the future if I put the effort in, I still didn't like the picture. I'd pretty much given up. It's such a hard decision to make (the hardest I ever made anyway). And of course there's other financial etc. stuff too (like the fact I'd spent twenty years putting my wages into someone else's mortgage and would leave with nothing), though I found out that the financial stuff is really irrelevant to the big picture (a person will always survive somehow). In my case I hung on in there for probably way too long trying to figure out what to do, which led to a breakdown.

Obviously your situation is completely different to mine, I'm not suggesting which direction you go in, just giving you what I went through. I don't think there's an objective "right" or "wrong" answer. It's within you and what you feel is right, ultimately. What you can live with and what you can't. I understand the concept made often here about how changing one's own behaviour and giving unconditional love and attention can make drastic differences to the relationship and I'm sure it's true. I commend those who can do that. I couldn't. I couldn't love someone unconditionally who could only love me conditionally back (possibly forever), and I couldn't even love myself unconditionally in that environment because it was too toxic and I was scared of him. Funnily enough, after leaving, I do feel unconditional love for him. But if I were to go back, I know I'd be thinking "Oh ok, that's why I left." It sounds like there's the possibility of growth between you two because you're both in counselling together (which would't have been an option for us - he wouldn't have done that), so maybe you'll get a better idea of how you feel about it as the counselling progresses. It's not necessarily a decision you make now - it may be a lot easier to make having done more work on yourself (which I wish I'd done - my breakup was a total car crash because of my non self-awareness and idiocy).

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Re: What to do

Post by Radey » Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:44 pm

Last edited by Radey on Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What to do

Post by marko » Fri Nov 17, 2017 5:18 pm

Thanks, I told her we don't even make good roommates. Feels like a stranger, but who's parts I know I don't like. Doesn't seem like fertile soil for love to grow ;;) . These feelings exsisted a decade before the LO. LE May cloud a way back, but I don't see a back to return to. It's just daunting to contemplate your hand in your own life's destruction. Is this what makes me nuts, faced with all the reality and continuing on?

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Re: What to do

Post by marko » Tue Dec 19, 2017 5:49 pm

Wife went to counseling and we had a good talk. I'd say we have very close issues. We are both prettty bad at building a relationship. I've been extra aware at how I pull back and my anxiety. I now see how ruled by anxiety I am. Even as our conversation was ending I was super stressed over what in the world we'd going to talk about next time =)) . I can't think of anything I don't stress and feel anxious over. Since everything you do feels wrong, you feel stuck. Couple that to her introvert unapproachable demeanor and stuckis an understatement.

We talked about how we have no friends, both personal and as a couple. It bothers her and she wishes better, I don't care and I don't mind being alone, I like it most of the time. I think the LE non intamate crush like exsistance is about where I end. I wanted exactly what I couldn't do. LE revealed that. I want close, but pull in and I'll run. Too damn much anxiety worrying about all the stuff you feel you can't do. Feeds a circle, makes my LO fade as I couldn't be any better. Make me sad for my wife as we can't pull any goodness out of each other, and I don't want to. Only I suppose to assuage my guilt.

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Re: What to do

Post by LisaTranscending » Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:53 pm

hi marko. sound too depressed to communicate with her in a meaningful way. if you can each work on your inner struggles and be courteous and kind to one another without having to tackle communicating in some more idealized profound way, you don't have to feel bad that you just aren't there yet and you can remain in the same house and not have everything go flying about economically and upheaval emotionally until you get to a better place to even gauge all that and your future together.

to change our behavioral patterns takes a lot of insight and patience. it sounds like you are both willing...and that, my HUGE!

we don't ever really arrive at some perfect idealized place anyway. if you can make it through an hour without the patterns of resentment or disappointment coming up, that is a victory. I wouldn't take your pattern of anxiety as etched in stone and defining of you. yes it comes up. but it doesn't mean that it is you or defines you all the time. it's just a pattern you fell into. you can with lots of mindfulness get a grasp on that.

and make small attempts to tap into the compassion inside of you which exists not only for you..but for her . these positive affirmations can change your world dramatically. it seems a simple antidote...but it takes a lot of mindfulness and dedication to being that mindful to get there. I found this rather comforting when I feel derailed, I just simple put my hand to my heart and say "be peace, be love"...sometimes the simple act of touching my heart and feeling the love I know I possess gets me back in touch with the greater reality of my stronger inner being.

here is a beautiful youtube video on communication.
this of course is the idealized place we would all like to be at. that doesn't mean we can't try every day to be the person this monk envisions for humans.

take some time out or at night put on some headphones and give this video a try. I find it inspirational. I hope you do, too.

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Re: What to do

Post by MrSpock » Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:59 pm

Hello marko. This is not going to be a helpful post (though I wish it could be). Feel free to skip it :)

Also, I bet this will be the most unpopular post ever. In my experience, no one really shares my views on this. But I feel like I have to tell you what I think anyway. This is all off the top of my head, let's see how it comes out...

Chuck was spot on. He said that every marriage deserves a chance. Well, I'd say that we deserve a chance to learn how to love in spite of each other, not just because of each other. Is easy to love what is good for you, but to love what can hurt you, that's really difficult. Now you'd ask, why should you? why should you put up with, say, your DW? specially not getting anything in return?

Well, there is actually a rather complicated answer to that, but to put it simply, because Love is giving, not getting. Why would you need a reason to Love (your DW for example), other than the simple fact that you can do it? Is not that you are incapable of loving, no matter how wrapped up in yourself and trapped in your traumas you might be. Fight your way out of your blocks and you'll see.

Now, if love is about giving, then what's the point? the point is that the thing we give, which we call love, is the best of ourselves put out there in our shared experiences. You see, we are driven to experience what we do, but there are no isolated actions, only inter-actions, hence, there are no isolated experiences, only shared experiences. Clearly, we want to have the best possible experience, but that is not possible if it is not the best shared experience. So, why love and expect nothing in return? because there is always "a return", the shared experience of everything we do, and this way we maximize it from our side as best as possible.

OK that went down too academish. Going back to earth.

I said that love is about giving, not getting. But that is a simplification. Here's a bit more precise way to put love from the perspective of our own gain:

Love is getting the best out of the things we do, by giving the best to the people with do those things with.

Then love is verb, is not a feeling. So you either love, or you don't. Is your call. And who else in the world would you dare to love other than you DW? isn't she the person you know and understand the most? maybe you don't YET love each other. Well, give yourselves a chance and keep trying. It's been 15 years already? that's nothing compared to your entire life, because in my not so humble opinion, that's the whole point of living, to learn how to love in spite of everything, not because of everything as romantic novels like you to think. If you walk out on your DW, you walk out on your best chance to finally figure out how to do what you are here to try to do.

My 2 cents.

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