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Messed up Marriage

Find support here if your partner is in limerence, having an affair or love addicted.
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MrSpock
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Re: Messed up Marriage

Post by MrSpock » Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:59 pm

David wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 7:40 am
If parents who had children with ADHD did their own growing up and started parenting differently, chances are their children would not need to be medicated.
FWIW, though I never heard of Macklers before, my son has ADHD yet my wife and I refused to give him meds, in spite of that causing us to have to let go several therapeutic teams, until we finally found one that accepted our decision. We figured exactly what you just said, that we must be the primary cause of his ADHD so that is were the solution must be found.

Having said that, his 12 now and I'm still struggling to let go of the bad parenting I brought him up with. Among many others, my most fundamental mistake was to think that not only he must obey my command as the father (which is wrong) but he also must want to do it (which is lunatic, no one really wants to do as told, even if I thought I did as a kid), which made me snap really badly each time he was defiant. That's how I was raised, and by my "dad" who was actually just the married lover of my mom, so he had his own real family and only came home occasionally on the weekends. But when we he did come home, we were like in the military. On the other hand (and this is the tricky part), he did love us, and what he did was that much harsh for our own good, so I always thought that was the way to do it.

mamasita
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Re: Messed up Marriage

Post by mamasita » Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:28 pm

AMA210 wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:11 pm
Thank you for the posts. They have caused me to think about this even more and to figure some things out. First, if I was secure in my marriage, I would have backed off from LO right away, realizing that a third person could come between us and that friendship with a married man is not possible. I did not because the issues were there already and the attention and listening without distraction was paramount. With LO, I met him shortly after he went through his daughter's broken leg and I think that all of the attention was diverted to her, leaving him in a similar position. We were two people lacking the same thing and found it in each other.

For 30 years, I took second place to DH's parents. At our wedding, his dad forbid him from inviting grandma and If DH would have, his dad would have disowned him. She wasn't invited. From the time we began dating, at age 20, until age 50, DH was expected to help his dad with everything, every project. His dad's favorite project was pouring cement--framing, making and mixing by hand. All of the grass areas at the rental properties they owned were replaced with cement. It was his dad's obsession. Many weekends were spent doing this, and for 10-12 hours a day. Any plans I had made didn't matter because DH had to "obey his parent". His mom helped also, but in order for some of the burden to be lessened, DH had too much guilt to say no.

I put up with this, continuing to believe that I just wasn't good enough for him to stay home with me. The wound of abandonment that began at age 5 continued to fester during all of those years. I didn't realize it. His dad controlled every aspect of his life and his mom's. If either dared to disagree with him or refuse to help, they got the silent treatment. I was told to never disagree with him and not piss him off.

I believe this is at the heart of LE. I have so much resentment towards DH. It's interesting to note that I met LO in the midst of his dad's illness. I think this is why I have no guilt or shame about this towards DH. I was acting out the resentment. Every time I saw LO, talked to him, got in trouble, drove by, was another act of defiance. DH told me not to drive by and I never listened, just like I told DH to say no to his dad, he never listened. I think this is why I am unconscious about the pain that DH has from this.

Right now, I am not in a position to tell DH that I love him and mean it. I do not and I have not for the time with LO, nearly 2 years now. I am moving In quite the opposite way lately and although this makes me very sad, it is what it is.
Ama :ymhug:
Like you, the resentment toward your DH is fueling a lot more of this than sometimes meets the eye. Does that mean that your LO is DH's fault? Well, no, but the resentments are there, and the resentment pushed us into this marriage where I am alone, trying to keep going. I've mentioned before that my DH also neglected me and our marriage/family for almost ten years. My limerence allowed me to escape from my lonely reality into a make believe place where I was admired and valued. Even when my DH started making major changes to win my heart back and becoming what every woman would want in a husband I was still too angry. Angry about incidences where I was dismissed, where I was ignored, and where my needs were seen as silly or unimportant. I think about when our children were little and ALL that I did for them...alone. My expectations were to be the perfect wife and mother and it seemed like he didn't have to do or be anything but who he was. My DH and I had counseling and for 5 years, I've wallowed around in bitterness and apathy and limerence while he held US together. The tables completely turned. I could not make myself give a d@mn anymore. I was in DH's presence but I think in my mind, I had been "gone" for many years. Even now, with almost a year of trying to care again, to love again, to trust again, I still have flashbacks of our old marriage. I had no idea how corrosive my bitterness had become to my self-worth and outlook on life. All of that to say, it took a LONG time to recover from my anger before I could even BEGIN to look at myself. Anger can be another mirage, like limerence. And believe me, I had the RIGHT to be angry. I've had the right to divorce DH. But I felt tortured throughout this marriage for many reasons and didn't exactly feel any motivation to help HIM feel better now that HE wanted a good marriage.

I'm glad that you can talk openly with DH about the issues. One of our patterns (myself and my DH) was that we would avoid topics as to not cause arguments. I would try to hide insecurities because they appeared weak or silly or old. My DH does it too. Tries to push past things that cause problems between us. But we have already gone through the worst. There's nothing to lose now. I had an insecure outburst just the other night. It was silly and juvenile and I hated myself for being angry at such a silly thing. But I let it all out, my DH held me and comforted me and it was over. My insecurity passed and I felt comforted. The very next day my DH is acting strange. Annoyed. Short. I asked him what was wrong and he told me "nothing" a few times. Which I knew wasn't true. I know him, I know when he is acting "off". He tells me that I "yelled and vented and cried last night and it's all good" but HE wants to yell and vent and cry too sometimes, but he doesn't because it "won't help anything". I told him to DO IT. We have to get outside of the patterns that locked us into a dead marriage. If that means speaking every thought and insecurity then by all means....what is there to lose at this point? No more beating around the bush. No more holding it in to keep the peace. And quite frankly, if your DH was so distraught and hurt over you having an LO, then he should SHOW it and FIX it. Sometimes I hold things together, sometimes he does. But I can't do the work of our marriage by myself. You can't comfort your DH when your DH acts like your falling for an LO is just another thing in life that's no big deal. He can't run to the casino when the going gets rough. Although, at the height of my anger, DH going to the casino was a relief. I started enjoying my alone time so much that being single was looking better and better.

L-F
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Re: Messed up Marriage

Post by L-F » Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:30 pm

Though London awaits the joyful arrival of Christmas, miserly LS thinks it's all humbug, berating their SO. Later, LS encounters the ghost of LF, who takes LS on a journey in to the future in the hope of transforming their perspective.

The Ebenezer Scrooge strategy...

The trick is not to let on what one is doing because at the end of the day, its all about planting seeds.  Who wants to be told what to do.   The best motivator is when one lets the seed grow into an aha moment.

Wake up wake up said the rabbit,  if you keep going that way, this is surely to happen no?  The same strategy used for smoking.  Keep smoking and your lungs will look like this.  Keep eating butter and your cholesterol level will look like this, keep wallowing in self-pity and your marriage will look like this.  Of course the doctor can only predict what will happen (and not all predictions come true),  the person might be hit by a bus instead of dying from clogged arteries.

Sometimes action comes from being able to visualize the future.

I love you all you bunch of dysfunctional limerents! Its like being with family. May every limerent find their way out of the rabbit hole :ymhug:
If only we'd sit with the void too... then perhaps we won't need to fill it once we get over the fear of its existence. L-F

AMA210
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Re: Messed up Marriage

Post by AMA210 » Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:19 am

@CrushedLO: "Since October we have been talking non-stop. Honest, deep conversations. We barely watch TV or do any social media anymore. I have learned a LOT about my wife and she is a very deep, complex, insightful and flawed person. All that steadiness or plainness we both exhibited in our dead marriage was just our distance. I absolutely love that I am getting to know the real her. And I can honestly say I don’t judge a single thing about her except for the actions she took while limerent. I don’t even judge her for being limerent.

I never thought I could get so close to her and I am thankful I’ve gotten to know her as she is. I used to love doing man things, riding motorcycles etc to get away from her, or the deadness of our dynamic (captain avoidant), now I look forward to coming home and talking with her and laying on the couch together. Not that everything is perfect, at least now we are putting the work into ourselves and each other."

I have to give you a ton of credit for wanting to and actually doing this. Especially the barely watch tv part. I am not there yet. I keep trying. I owned my shit, realized what I could have done differently. There is progress and then slide back. I came back from therapy with a few new ideas. I asked DH if he would do individual therapy. He said what for? I don't need that. OK. I suggested he try meditation, maybe a short one tonite. He said no, I have to watch my shows.

I am so frustrated right now. I want to do so much. I am changing for the better, so positive, and yet, I feel, almost like being kept down, because I should leave him alone and I am trying to piss him off with this shit. I will not be restrained any longer. I will do what I need to do for me.
LE was 22 months...LO catalyst for awakening, in which I chose divorce (after 27 years of marriage)
Very happy and content with my new beginning

CrushedSO
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Re: Messed up Marriage

Post by CrushedSO » Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:42 pm

AMA210 wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:19 am
@CrushedLO: "Since October we have been talking non-stop. Honest, deep conversations. We barely watch TV or do any social media anymore. I have learned a LOT about my wife and she is a very deep, complex, insightful and flawed person. All that steadiness or plainness we both exhibited in our dead marriage was just our distance. I absolutely love that I am getting to know the real her. And I can honestly say I don’t judge a single thing about her except for the actions she took while limerent. I don’t even judge her for being limerent.

I never thought I could get so close to her and I am thankful I’ve gotten to know her as she is. I used to love doing man things, riding motorcycles etc to get away from her, or the deadness of our dynamic (captain avoidant), now I look forward to coming home and talking with her and laying on the couch together. Not that everything is perfect, at least now we are putting the work into ourselves and each other."

I have to give you a ton of credit for wanting to and actually doing this. Especially the barely watch tv part. I am not there yet. I keep trying. I owned my shit, realized what I could have done differently. There is progress and then slide back. I came back from therapy with a few new ideas. I asked DH if he would do individual therapy. He said what for? I don't need that. OK. I suggested he try meditation, maybe a short one tonite. He said no, I have to watch my shows.

I am so frustrated right now. I want to do so much. I am changing for the better, so positive, and yet, I feel, almost like being kept down, because I should leave him alone and I am trying to piss him off with this shit. I will not be restrained any longer. I will do what I need to do for me.
Hi AMA, as much as my wife’s affair hurt me, I think it was a blessing in disguise in that I had a limerent affair too. We both understand how it happens. We both made incredibly poor choices. That said, reconciling would be a lot more difficult if only one of us had betrayed the other. My wife and I went to a group meditation last night. It was fun, and worth doing.

Keep trying. Ask your husband if he wants to go to therapy. If he replies that he doesn’t need to, ask him if he is happy with the status quo?

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LisaTranscending
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Re: Messed up Marriage

Post by LisaTranscending » Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:07 pm

hmmmmmmmmmmmm....
hhhhh,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


that tv stuff.....hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

seriously..that's a hard one to crack. is it possible at the root of his tv habit...is your actual frustration?

look...he knows it bothers you. (even if it's unconscious..but it would be hard to ignore that his spouse feels disconnected with him in the very least. and I know you have mentioned it to him.)

so he knows it bothers you. he makes no attempt to downplay or try to connect with you when you reach out to him "seemingly" oblivious to your entreaties but just innocently "I have to watch my shows." and when you ask to go to therapy..."What for?"

why would he do that? why would he continue to do any of that?

could be for your attention (even if it's negative). could be he just wants to check out from life/stress, and that's his go-to move. could be to be in control of you...by denying you this...he remains in control.
either way, AMA...he's not ready/interested/willing....at THIS time.

but.....either way.....it's his problem...but you continue to make it your problem.

dear AMA...if we wait for other people to get their shit together before we make our life special....we are going to be waiting (sorely disappointed) for a VERY LONG TIME.

for 2,600 years people have been obstinate, selfish, clueless and downright NOT UNDERSTANDING WHAT WE NEED! I think my math is off..it's probably longer than that. since we are primates and just check out baboon behavior...those primates are real assholes to one another in their hierarchical quests.

so...in my best 12 year old sitting on my bike saying in an annoying tease to my BFF AMA...."Says who that it's anyone's responsibility to even do that?" (please don't push me off my bike)

you are not being kept down by anybody but yourself. by your disappointment...by your resentments. THOSE are your enemies.
you don't have to feel restrained or angry about not getting what you want from your husband. I understand why you feel that way and it's only natural many married people end there. sometimes it feels like you have to blow the whole thing up for it to work again and start all over.

I did that. I don't advise it. it's too disruptive and painful. knowing, though, it's very difficult to remain emotionally calm when the pressing upheaval of unhappily married life is wearing on one. (and has for years)

but that unhappiness isn't just about your marriage. it's also about the parts of you that want to grow. and you are, leaps and bounds! getting frustrated isn't a bad thing...it's pointing you in the direction of...Hey...I (me!) need to take charge of what is going on here.

do what you need to do for you, but do it with the mood of loving-kindness even towards the one who seems to be so distant and not understanding your desire for growth.

forgive him for it, AMA. keep to your path. and when you forgive him...that's where you will make the most progress for your own growth.

edit: just...I realize this is very different advice than CrushedSO. but comes a time when you can't wait on someone else or keep asking them. you really have to move forward with your own dreams and progress. he may catch up to you somewhere down the road...but i wouldn't keep bugging him. it seems like he's digging in his heels if you asked me.

edit: I'd like to add that I'm eating an ice cream while I'm on my bike.

AMA210
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Re: Messed up Marriage

Post by AMA210 » Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:37 pm

@LisaT: If you are on a bike with a banana seat, I am taking that ice cream. Always wanted that and never got one. 8-|

I am glad you said this. I realized from it that just as I know that I can't change LO, I can't change DH. It has to come from within and no book or video will do that. The disconnects with DH -- spiritual, emotional, physical, in that order. Unfortunately, LO had all of those. I see exactly what and why LO filled such a huge void.

This morning our discussion was revisited.
Therapy might help to be more authentic and have more connection with me.
DH: we talked and I feel good and everything is fine. You are saying I am broken and I'm not. My self esteem sucks because I'm fat. I don't want your suggestion.

Meditation helps with anxiety, it's very calming.
DH: if you like it, then you do it. I am not ready to try it.

My suggestions were met with resistance and then he got mad and wouldn't talk to me. I told him I am trying to be honest with you. This scene reminded me of his dad, to whom one could not make any suggestions or disagree with, ever. Classic controller and codependent. It truly sucked to watch this dynamic play out in my kitchen.

When he left, I decided. I decided to give up on trying to help him. His FOO made him this way and it will take a while to forgive him. But, with that said, I will continue to give my opinion freely and "make food" for him and ask him to fix the sink because the faucet keeps falling off and it's been broken since summer, and to tell him to grow the fuck up and act like an adult by not running to his "mommy" for money when he blows it all at the casino.
LE was 22 months...LO catalyst for awakening, in which I chose divorce (after 27 years of marriage)
Very happy and content with my new beginning

Endgame
Posts: 248
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Re: Messed up Marriage

Post by Endgame » Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:20 pm

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Last edited by Endgame on Mon May 21, 2018 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

L-F
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Re: Messed up Marriage

Post by L-F » Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:06 pm

Awww AMA. I was really hoping he would start with some heavy lifting. Sorry, but he sounds like a miserable old git! IMO

If I were in your shoes, I'd look at what I wanted long-term. To stay with a money making machine, or to be financially independent and open to finding true love.

You deserve to be loved the way you want to be loved.
If only we'd sit with the void too... then perhaps we won't need to fill it once we get over the fear of its existence. L-F

Endgame
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Re: Messed up Marriage

Post by Endgame » Sat Feb 03, 2018 5:24 pm

out of interest AMA- and I think I've asked you this before...

If you absolutely HAD to find 5 good points about your DH. including the reasons why you chose to marry him in the first place, what were they? I'm assuming it wasn't an arranged marriage and you had some free choice in it so, at some point, there was something of some sort in his favour?

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