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Happy about choosing a new (and male) therapist

Talk therapy can help but at times less cognitive treatments are required. Anything related to ANY form of therapy goes here.
Havb
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Re: Happy about choosing a new (and male) therapist

Post by Havb » Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:03 am

I’m not a feminist interested in pushing for equality at the moment. This is because I believe that true equality is a pipe dream unless we’re willing to take a good hard look at, own up to, discuss, and hold ourselves accountable, for the inequities and injustices we all have been swimming in all our lives —and the micro and macro effect of those (all genres of sexual violence being one example; the way most of us (including me) parent as a reinforcement of traditional gender roles being another. The progress will be slow, and no sort of radical “let’s flip the script” dogma will be a panacea.

*gets off soapbox


Oh, and @L-F, yes, I’m aware of counter-transference. I welcome it for the time being. I can only trust that if it ever feels counter-productive, I fire him!
“Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.” -Samuel Beckett

There is always more work to be done.

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Re: Happy about choosing a new (and male) therapist

Post by Ivanhoe » Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:39 am

<t>Thus is now a (n officially) fascinating thread. <br/>
<br/>
My two cents, having seen all waves of feminism from the first awkward attempts to make sense out of spectacular, women-freeing technological breakthroughs into a coherent narrative, to the general male-maligning ideology my hetero son reports to me from his Ph.D efforts in a field utterly dominated by gay men and male-hating women at a top, top university (none of which excuses boorish or worse behavior by men or any suppression of true equality between the sexes - by our society, laws or courts -- speaking of soapboxes :)) ):<br/>
<br/>
1. All triggers are internal. David has delivered triggers to me on two occasions that hurt - but ultimately gave me a great deal of value. (Seems to me the title itself was a trigger warning :-o ); <br/>
2. I have had interesting conversations about "feminism" with women both academic and non- and have come away understanding that they are talking about two very different things. Third wave feminism IMHO is not at all interested in "equality" but rather is an ideology of and strategic weapon in acquiring power. The word "feminism" for normal women does mean more or less more equality in the workplace, etc. But if the stats about men and boys re: education, health, violence, suicide, etc, etc etc are true (and they appear to be) our current zeitgeist is going in the very wrong direction for boys and a full frontal assault on boys does indeed appear to be taking place (I've seen it in my local high school. Women who have sons might consider its psychological effect on them, and protect them with all their hearts. :ymapplause: <br/>
4. The video is really a discussion of giving up power - a point Havb makes in a different post - something one should never do but that men do regularly in their relationships to the detriment of themselves and the women they are involved with.
5. All that said, I know men (okay me) who were so damaged by their mothers that they think they are not giving up their power when in fact they are defending themselves against projections! </t>
65 (feel 50); Male

"Grief makes children of us all. Any intellectual difference is destroyed. The wisest know nothing."
- Emerson

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Re: Happy about choosing a new (and male) therapist

Post by Ivanhoe » Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:44 am

6. And sometimes those projections are so subtle and hidden that they (I) don't even know they are (I am) doing it!! B-) And when I do understand it, I feel better and also know I have recovered my power. For son's of very damaged mothers, the whole relationship with a woman thing is profoundly complicated -- and that is before taking into account the issues of the woman involved!! :))
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"Grief makes children of us all. Any intellectual difference is destroyed. The wisest know nothing."
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Re: Happy about choosing a new (and male) therapist

Post by David » Sun Jun 10, 2018 7:24 am

Ivanhoe wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:44 am
6. And sometimes those projections are so subtle and hidden that they (I) don't even know they are (I am) doing it!! B-) And when I do understand it, I feel better and also know I have recovered my power. For son's of very damaged mothers, the whole relationship with a woman thing is profoundly complicated -- and that is before taking into account the issues of the woman involved!! :))
There are few topics now where I get triggered. This is one of the few. I noticed last night my anger in reading this thread and wanted to respond with aggression, sarcasm and other passive aggressive magician behaviour. I have now learned to sleep on stuff when I get reactive. As I posted elsewhere, I am aware this has nothing to do with what others write here and everything to do with my projection originating from my mother and her man hating ways - SO says she hated woman as much.

And even this morning, I notice a less intense visceral reaction in my gut, not as intense as yesterday, yet still there, such is the power of my unconscious. I was raised to appease women and never confront them - the classic white knight whose job was to sacrifice himself to be the rescuer - this behaviour almost cost me my marriage with my limerence - wanting to rescue PILO.

Brings to mind if you want to see what a woman will be like in relationship with you, see how her relationship with her father was/is. And if you want to see what a man will be like in a relationship see what his relationship with his mother was/is.

So I appreciate the posters her for giving me more more gold as I continue to work on this edge.

Im 100% for equality - that is equality of opportunity and not equality of outcome. Sadly we live in a world where we have a long long way to go before all people have this opportunity. And I know the answer is not suppression of free speech, however offensive we may deem it to be. We have to be able to tolerate other's views however hateful or hurtful if we are going to shine a light on our own and other's judgements, biases and isms that exist in all of our shadows.

If my mother were still alive I'd be having some radically honest conversations with her, one of my T's ideas was she got dementia to escape into another world as she recognised I was waking up and was going to be mighty pissed off with her.
"Until you make the unconscious conscious, it will direct your life and you will call it fate." - C.G. Jung

For Relationship Coaching help see www.loverelations.co.uk
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Idiotic
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Re: Happy about choosing a new (and male) therapist

Post by Idiotic » Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:23 am

David wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 7:24 am
We have to be able to tolerate other's views however hateful
Nope [-x [-x
I keep dancing on my own - Robyn

Havb
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Re: Happy about choosing a new (and male) therapist

Post by Havb » Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:15 pm

Why can’t both be true?

Women are oppressed by patriarchal institutions AND men are damaged by the knight in shining armor mythology?

I hasten to add that I have noticed this knight in shining armor BS play out in my husband and his WASP culture, but not in my Latin culture. Totally different beast IMO, though suppressing of emotions are still central.

Edited to add: moving on to problem solving mode—maybe a thread could be created for videos like the one posted here. So those of us interested could go there and discuss. My point was that it felt out of place in this thread. I suggested it could come with a warning—that’s another alternative. Many of us are learning to ask for what we need and/or express ourselves— I was exercising that right.

Oh, and I prefer equity over equality. But elaborating on that isn’t necessary here.
Last edited by Havb on Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
“Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.” -Samuel Beckett

There is always more work to be done.

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Re: Happy about choosing a new (and male) therapist

Post by townshend » Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:25 pm

Idiotic wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:23 am
David wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 7:24 am
We have to be able to tolerate other's views however hateful
Nope [-x [-x
Not true. You have to listen to them to understand them and know what you’re up against and be open to different ideas but if it’s hateful you should never tolerate it.

And to be clear I’m not opposed to the posting of the video, I simply disagree with it and the subtle misrepresentations the narrator of it makes of both society and the movement. He says something like ‘men are punished for simply aspiring to reach the top,’ untrue. It’s for the suppression of the opportunity of others to do the same. I also didn’t quite see it as hateful just a bad misrepresentation in order to reinforce the opinion of the narrator.

And I see no reason at all why equality can’t be a goal or why that’d have to wait while also taking responsibility for ones own issues and contributions to the problem.
No good has ever come from feeling guilty neither intelligence, policy, nor compassion. The guilty do not pay attention to the object but only to themselves and not even to their own interests, which might make sense, but to their anxieties. -Paul Goodman

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Re: Happy about choosing a new (and male) therapist

Post by Ivanhoe » Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:56 pm

Havb, sorry this thread has moved beyond your courageous decision to confront your issues with a male therapist, and hope you don't get distracted.
But this thread has been helpful to me and I'm not sure at what point it makes sense to move this discussion elsewhere. So, if I may . . .
David wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 7:24 am

And I know the answer is not suppression of free speech, however offensive we may deem it to be. We have to be able to tolerate other's views however hateful or hurtful if we are going to shine a light on our own and other's judgements, biases and isms that exist in all of our shadows.

If my mother were still alive I'd be having some radically honest conversations with her, one of my T's ideas was she got dementia to escape into another world as she recognised I was waking up and was going to be mighty pissed off with her.
townshend wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:25 pm
Idiotic wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:23 am
David wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 7:24 am
We have to be able to tolerate other's views however hateful
Nope [-x [-x
Not true. You have to listen to them to understand them and know what you’re up against and be open to different ideas but if it’s hateful you should never tolerate it.
Language is such a tricky thing. If I might, lawyerlike, add a word that may add a bit of clarity to the above so as to make it clear what I think David was obviously saying: "We have to be able to tolerate 'hearing' other's views ... " in order to gain insight into our own minds. The main point was hearing inside ourselves to see what it triggered to allow us to do our internal work.

This thread incidentally has truly triggered my stuff with my FOO. My mother would deny my reality, my father would check out, I would be left to psychologically defend myself alone -- and, I felt the need to defend my father! As my late great friend used to say, "the human mind was over-engineered." =))

Want to know how screwed up my mother was? In high school I was a national merit scholar, played three sports, regularly, at my father's urging (trying to placate his wife at my expense!) delivered The Flower Talk (an homage to motherhood in the Boy's Masonic organization -- "My body fed your body son, but birth's a quick thing compared to one and twenty years of feeding you with spirits tears ...") competed weekly statewide with the debate team, and was elected President of my student council -- all things one would expect to reflect well on my successful narcissistic mother (degrees in child development =)) :)) :ymtongue: , honors in her profession).

One day I came home from basketball practice -- with friends -- to find most of my possessions thrown out into the snow. Reason: I did not keep my room as neat as my (eventually "out" and extremely neat and tidy gay [and a good friend now and fine man]) cousin. The only violence I ever saw in my large, extended family (emotional but also once or twice physical) was female against male.
65 (feel 50); Male

"Grief makes children of us all. Any intellectual difference is destroyed. The wisest know nothing."
- Emerson

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David
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Re: Happy about choosing a new (and male) therapist

Post by David » Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:09 pm

Ivanhoe wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:56 pm
Language is such a tricky thing. If I might, lawyerlike, add a word that may add a bit of clarity to the above so as to make it clear what I think David was obviously saying: "We have to be able to tolerate 'hearing' other's views ... " in order to gain insight into our own minds. The main point was hearing inside ourselves to see what it triggered to allow us to do our internal work.
Thanks for the clarification Ivanhoe. Yes, i may not like nor agree with other's views and yet it forces me to look at my own stuff and may stimulate difficult conversations that highlights my own edges, triggers and projections.

The challenge with suppression of free speech (however that is defined) is who becomes the arbiter of said speech? What is offensive to one person may not be to another. Liked many of the issues we discuss here, there are no easy answers.
"Until you make the unconscious conscious, it will direct your life and you will call it fate." - C.G. Jung

For Relationship Coaching help see www.loverelations.co.uk
For Individual Coaching and Mentoring see www.drdavidperl.com

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Re: Happy about choosing a new (and male) therapist

Post by David » Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:10 pm

Havb wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:15 pm
Why can’t both be true?
In my worldview they very much both are true.
"Until you make the unconscious conscious, it will direct your life and you will call it fate." - C.G. Jung

For Relationship Coaching help see www.loverelations.co.uk
For Individual Coaching and Mentoring see www.drdavidperl.com

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