Long time forum problems

Open forum ... what's on your mind? Want to vent or lament about your Limerent/Love Object? This is the ideal place.
MrSpock
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Re: Long time forum problems

Post by MrSpock »

L-F wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:50 am
But definitely don't PM them to start an argument. You'll end up blocked and reported =))
Fair enough.

There is a downside to the PM approach even to the one being called out. It could happen that a member gets multiple PMs, and even assuming a perfectly polite and civilized conversation, the "receiver" would end up having to repeat his reasons and arguments way too many times.
But well, I suppose that in such a case the receiver can decide to bring the discussion into the public.


In any case, whether publicly or privately, one other fundamental rule that I forgot is:

If one needs to call out an inappropriate post, always refer to the post, never the poster.

For example, if we read some poster X having written something offensive, we shouldn't jump in saying "you X are offensive" but "hey X, I think this sentence right here is offensive, because of this and that".

That might seem silly, but it goes a LONG way to avoiding cascading the conflict.

Cookie
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Re: Long time forum problems

Post by Cookie »

MrSpock wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:21 am
assuming a perfectly polite and civilized conversation
I think this is the concern I have with a PM-resolution approach. It may be most unfair to new people to have to take this step. Especially if they've already been stabbed in public.

If a bunch of members have an issue with something you've posted or how you've said it, maybe they're onto something. The old marching band analogy: is one member out of step, or is it the other 99?

It could also lead to alliance forming and open the door to predatory behaviors. "Hi, newbie. Gosh, I hate to see how you're being treated. Can I help?" We just saw a situation where PMs were used in this way.

I say keep the conversation out in the open as much as possible, and David now knows our concerns.

Sunlight is the best disinfectant.
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MrSpock
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Re: Long time forum problems

Post by MrSpock »

Cookie wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:07 am
I say keep the conversation out in the open as much as possible, and David now knows our concerns.

Sunlight is the best disinfectant.
You raised a very good point. There is good side of PMs but they can also generate problems of itself.

Now in that case, the recent rule I proposed about discussing the message, not the messenger could allow for a public conflict resolution that doesn't cascade into its own conflict as it usually happens.

L-F
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Re: Long time forum problems

Post by L-F »

MrSpock wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:12 am
Now in that case, the recent rule I proposed about discussing the message, not the messenger could allow for a public conflict resolution that doesn't cascade into its own conflict as it usually happens.
Yes and if we go back to the old forum culture of being *I* focused the less likely to play the blame game.

I agree Cookie that PM'ing to *rescue* someone isn't a good thing, its enabling behavior which doesn't help anyone. I think we all need to stay away from demonizing, personalizing and rescuing on the forum, and in PM.

Wishing you all the best Wishmagic and Redbear! I hope you travel well and gently throughout your limerence journey.
Learn to forgive...Life is too short to live with hate.
"Everything is within your power, and your power is within you." Janice Trachtman

Acrobatica
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Re: Long time forum problems

Post by Acrobatica »

I disagree with keeping concerns in PMs. This allows the cruel comment to go unanswered publicly. It then normalizes that it is OK to comment cruelly on someone's post. It also means that each individual person has to figure out for themselves that certain people on here give very painful or misleading advice that can keep people in a place of self-blame for far too long, instead of actually using limerence for the wake-up call to growth and awareness that it is.

I also disagree that this forum should be more "I"centered. One of the things that I learned through therapy is that I thought any pain that I was in was my own fault and took full responsibility for it. So if someone slapped me, I thought I had earned that slap. If someone called me selfish, I thought it was because I was not putting that person's needs above my own, as I had been taught to do since birth. If someone called me too emotional, I thought it was because I was too emotional. In short, I took on all problems that others (read my ex and my mother) had with me as my own and desperately tried to fix myself. Until I just couldn't do it anymore.

I learned this because in therapy when I would say something that someone did that was hurtful, in a matter of fact way, my therapist would cringe a bit and make a tiny face. And I would stop and think, why did she just make that face. And then I realized that I just said that someone had done something profoundly hurtful to me and was acting as if it did not hurt at all. This is a coping mechanism for those of us living with someone who cannot handle other's emotions because they cannot handle their own.

So after years, I have finally started to feel pain, actually feel it, instead of just intellectually recognize it, when someone says something painful.

And after years, I finally recognize that it is not always my fault when someone says something painful to me. That the cure is not to fix myself for them, but to understand that this is about that person and not me.

This is why I so profoundly disagree with the advice to look inside. For me, it was so important to realize first, that there are people who thrive on other's pain, who seek to control, and who want to keep others down to elevate themselves. Call it whatever you want, narcissism, bpd, pyschopathy, cluster B, lack of empathy, but these people exist and when they criticize you they are doing it for themselves and not to help you be a better person.

Then, and only then, can we look inside and see why we are so vulnerable to these kinds of people. First, any discussion of narcissism will say that many of us are susceptible. There is usually a love-bombing very pleasant stage at the beginning. But some of us are more susceptible than others. And that is likely because we were raised by someone who has these dark qualities. We have associated love with abuse. And that is likely why we suffer so much in our relationships.

I am very sorry to see that David appears to want to let this forum proceed as an unsafe and harmful place. I am doubly sorry to see that L-F has doubled down on her advice to "look within" and do the "heavy lifting." The way out of this, and it is so very hard to do, is self-compassion. Re-parent yourself. Forgive yourself. Love yourself. Look at your own actions with curiosity and kindness. Realize it is normal to feel pain when someone does something to hurt you. You can not fix them, but you can remove yourself from the situation.

And I am now recognizing that I am doing the thing I like to do, which is watch out for others. But alas, I cannot help those who seek out this forum in pain, without realizing that by opening up to people that they think will finally understand, they will subject themselves to further shaming and harm. I am, thus, also taking my own advice and removing myself.

JupiterTaco
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Re: Long time forum problems

Post by JupiterTaco »

I don't like seeing people leave. I've left/taken breaks also, but ultimately I must stay to give a different perspective.
"Byreeeeeeeen! Byreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee...eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeen!"

Cookie
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Re: Long time forum problems

Post by Cookie »

JupiterTaco wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:12 pm
I don't like seeing people leave. I've left/taken breaks also, but ultimately I must stay to give a different perspective.
I left for several months once because of these same issues. Maybe I'll come back again, IDK. Everything has a shelf life. As it should.

It's vital to look within and annoying to be constantly "schooled" that we're somehow not doing that the minute we mention the role another person has played/is playing in our lives. The two are not mutually exclusive. In that same regard, all the self-awareness in the world doesn't amount to a hill of beans if we can't turn that back outward and relate to others in a way that is respectful and empowering. Just because you declare what you're doing to be motivating doesn't make it so. That's for others to decide.

And I've been enough of a hypocrite on here lately to know it's time to step away. I wish every one of you the best, even if you've completely pissed me off. Likewise, I'm sure. ;;)
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JupiterTaco
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Re: Long time forum problems

Post by JupiterTaco »

I can agree. While it's good to be able to see one's own role in things, I am sick to death of being forced to carry the blame for the way someone else decides to treat me. Case in point my most recent neighbor situation. I did nothing whatsoever to this guy, have no idea what he decided his fucking problem is with me.

Was sitting outside writing and listening to music minding my own business almost two weeks ago. He came out to bitch about his apartment, with someone else soon joining us, which culminated into him basically telling me all the ways my oh-so-powerful landlord could ruin my life, for no reason. WTF! This, ladies and gentlemen, is why I never talk to people!!!
"Byreeeeeeeen! Byreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee...eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeen!"

Idiotic
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Re: Long time forum problems

Post by Idiotic »

Guys I'm sad that there is friction here and some are leaving.

Pls don't go.

Honestly, I don't even have the energy for another conflict, idk how you guys manage lol
Dealing with LO mentally takes up ALL my energy. Like there is not even quantum amount left for other stuff .
I keep dancing on my own - Robyn

Cookie
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Re: Long time forum problems

Post by Cookie »

Idiotic wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:49 am
Guys I'm sad that there is friction here and some are leaving.

Pls don't go.

Honestly, I don't even have the energy for another conflict, idk how you guys manage lol
Dealing with LO mentally takes up ALL my energy. Like there is not even quantum amount left for other stuff .
I don’t want anyone to leave, including L-F. It’s healthy to step away and yes, reflect on however this recent stuff made us act and feel. Not very good, in my case. So I find myself lapsing into the same role that brought me here in the first place. I’m hoping we can be here in ways that are truly uplifting and empowering to others, even if that’s not immediate. I can’t say that I offered this with the last round. So maybe time to work on those triggers, as David has suggested. I’d prefer more moderation/mediation, but maybe the real lesson is not to lean on that.
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