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We can recover and grow from limerence.

Perhaps there is light at the end of the tunnel. Or maybe life is never the same after limerence. Read how others have coped with limerence in the longer term. Please feel free to post your own accounts of journeying through limerence.
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David
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Re: We can recover and grow from limerence.

Post by David » Sat Jul 18, 2015 6:16 am

bhicks wrote:Just catching up on the posts here due to an absence.

Great stuff David. Keep us posted! Great that your SO does psychopomp too :-) I'm finally getting my PIT training through my igroup , which is making me realize what I have been missing!
Awesome bhicks, i got more from my PIT then the NWTA. I did my first staffing 2 weeks ago and am going to co-facilitate a PIT training in a couple of weeks. We've also got our own igroup up and running. The MKP is really helping me show my vulnerability amongst men in a place i feel very safe. Some of the men are fantastic male role models for me and yet it makes me appreciate just how poor a template my own father was. I too wish i had stumbled across MKP 30 years ago. Im blown away by guys in their early 20's pitching up and recognising they are lacking something.

Any men reading this, i can't recommend MKP highly enough. And no, im not on commission, i have to pay for the privilege of staffing events and don't get remunerated for any training i do. I get paid back in bucket loads by giving back and seeing other men grow.
"Until you make the unconscious conscious, it will direct your life and you will call it fate." - C.G. Jung

For Professional Coaching / Therapy see http://loverelations.co.uk/limerence

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11 months NC, the urge to merge and my FUFOO

Post by David » Wed Sep 30, 2015 6:47 am

Just back from another weekend staffing at an MKP weekend. Connecting with others at a deep intimate level feeds my soul. Being in service to others ( i was on a cooking team of 6 feeding 100 men) feeds my soul. I felt safe enough for only the second time in my life to touch my primal pain amongst the company of other men. This is the place i need to go to if i'm going to grow and heal. And yet the pain is indescribable, it feels like my heart is being torn from my chest. I've never lost anyone really close to me, perhaps it's the pain of grieving when we lose someone/something we really love? Maybe i'm grieving for the generations that went before me and didn't have the opportunities that i've been blessed with? Within this there is guilt and rage as well.

When i come away from these events, i crash. It's a feeling i'm starting to recognise and now expect. This is when i'm at my most vulnerable. This is when i get that urge to merge with the magical other. And yet I know and am starting to feel there is a strength in my vulnerability. As for the desire to merge, yes a few thoughts entered my mind of LO and also of another woman I met on the same course. With this other woman we shared a mutual sexual attraction. The difference was this other woman was able to talk to me about her feelings towards me, and me to her, there was no game playing, we respected each other's boundaries and there was no limerence for me.

And the more i grow, the more separated i feel from my FUFOO and their sick enmeshment. The more i also see just how deficient and in some ways abusive their parenting was. My father called yesterday wanting me to attend an event where he's laying a plaque to honour his murdered family. I didn't feel like i had a choice for fear of upsetting him, a script i was indoctrinated with - " don't upset your father, he's suffered enough". I talked this through with a friend after who asked why i wasn't honest and just say no. Another example of how i still need to grow stronger boundaries. I texted my dad back saying i won't be going, no need to give a reason. I felt bad doing that but i'm sick of putting duty before love.

Im noticing how when i decide i need to separate from my family my father starts calling me more, after 54 years of him never calling and showing little interest in my life. Just like with LO - when I went NC she tried to reel me back in and yet was never interested in me. So one more parallel that's just come into my awareness as i type this, my father that is feeling me breaking away and his efforts to reel me back in for his own narc supply. It wont be long before one or more of my 3 sisters also gets involved and tries to get me back on the drama triangle by acting as the rescuer to my dad and attempting to persecute me. I shall not be playing the victim, nor try to rescue my dad nor persecute them in return. All i can do is find compassion for each of them. They are all on their own journeys, their own paths becoming more and more divergent from mine. All part of letting go with grace and compassion.
"Until you make the unconscious conscious, it will direct your life and you will call it fate." - C.G. Jung

For Professional Coaching / Therapy see http://loverelations.co.uk/limerence

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LisaTranscending
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Re: We can recover and grow from limerence.

Post by LisaTranscending » Thu Oct 01, 2015 2:03 pm

Well since TribeLE (and Jake) went poof (I almost think Jake's departure created a vortex of some kind) ha!
but....I remembered about you David, and how you started this site. It is I, Lisa, from old tribe....but now Transcendent...which I do believe I owe to what happened to me, that Limerence Hurricane.

I have been reading about your spiritual stirrings, your more authentic connection with your father, your journey and that which is calling you home, the home inside yourself. Limerence is so much about seeking home outside of us, the Constant and unrelenting seeking of Other (home) just to feel whole again.

but WE CAN RECOVER AND GROW FROM LIMERENCE. In the last month it really came "home" to me that what I seek outside myself is not possible. I started a relationship (with a jewish psychiatrist...no not mine.. ha ha) in the last month. One reason I was really drawn to him was that he is jewish and I never went with a jewish guy before( too much like dad) and of course...he's aspie...just like LO. I could feel it all happening....the wanting....the yearning desire....the "finally home" feeling.....and it always felt just out of reach. like it was right there in his stare, or his smile, but I could never actually touch it. Simply because it is outside of me, and he cannot be possessed in that way. knowing that is one thing, but internalizing knowledge into something real inside our reality was always, like possession, a moment away, but somehow intangible.

until last night. Of course it happened to me at a concert. Mahler 5. every moment...from the first note....was calling me home. It was nothing less that a whole and complete religious experience. Something of an exorcism as well. As the music coursed through all the atoms in my entire body my heart opened completely. And I had a vision. Inside my heart was a galaxy. Just like the Milky Way, I could see it in my mind's eye spinning like it does in space, but right there inside my heart. And suddenly I realized, I hold the entire cosmos right there...right there in the center of my heart it is spinning and spinning around and it contains all the love in the whole world. And there is enough love for me and every creature and human being on this planet. We hold the mulitudes, and God summoned Mahler in the woods one day (Mahler actually became quite frightened and ran back to his cottage) but Mahler said God spoke to him. And it's all there in the music. All of it. The music is God communicating to us to never feel alone or afraid again. not God the bible god. not God that man fears God. God--- the energy of the cosmos.

I will never need anyone again the way I did in the past. Now my path is not about needing another to feel whole. I do need people to share all that galaxy in my heart, but only those who vibrate to the atoms that are trembling there with love. I can only share with those--- and share, not grab at or hold so tight that I take away their freedom or mine.

so.... David....I am free. I am finally free. And yes...it was truly a lesson taught by the old Headmaster Pain, by LE, to which I bend at the knees and honor that cleansing fire of pain. Pain has ruled me only as teacher, not as master any longer. There is a cosmos inside us. May we all pause to feel it and be part of it.

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Re: We can recover and grow from limerence.

Post by JohnDeux » Thu Oct 01, 2015 5:25 pm

@David: "All part of letting go with grace and compassion."

@Lisa T: " I never went with a jewish guy before( too much like dad) and of course...he's aspie...just like LO.....I will never need anyone again the way I did in the past."

Good to hear of the growth that both of you are experiencing, painful as it can be. I'm probably out of my element in commenting on the Jewish aspect of your respective family histories. But as I'd been feeling out this notion of closure recently, I remember as I was composing my thoughts on that topic thinking about how much of a LACK of closure characterizes the Holocaust and I'm sure this has been noted many times before in different ways. David, your father seems to be reaching for some sort of closure on his own experience while at the same time denying you a part of yours and it is unfortunate that he can't find a way to link the two issues for your sake and the family that he had. Yet your determination and increasing strength is showing in your writing....and the endorsement by you and my cousin regarding the MKP has me continually curious. Hence "...I know and am starting to feel there is a strength in my vulnerability.".....that's a place at which I have yet to arrive.

@Lisa T: "...not God that man fears God. God--- the energy of the cosmos. .....(the) cosmos inside us"

[...Do you mind the use of Lisa T??.....perhaps you could team up in concerts with Sheila E.??... ;-)...]

"the water of life
is concealed as a divine gift
inside this body
and that's why you can't see it
the Self has gone and placed a seal
on the heart and hid love away forever
break the seal save the love
why are you so afraid?
There are secret paths in the heart
Go and find the beloved"

--RUMI, 13TH-CENTURY SUFI POET FROM PERSIA
"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain...."~ The Wizard of Oz

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Re: We can recover and grow from limerence.

Post by LisaTranscending » Thu Oct 01, 2015 6:55 pm

"the water of life
is concealed as a divine gift
inside this body
and that's why you can't see it
the Self has gone and placed a seal
on the heart and hid love away forever
break the seal save the love
why are you so afraid? "- Rumi

"Until you make the unconscious conscious, it will direct your life and you will call it fate. "- C.G. Jung

"Your visions will become clear only when you can look into your own heart. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes. "- C.G. Jung

Rumi and Jung felt it. What I felt at the Symphony last night, they felt it. Why was it concealed in the body? Why did the Self seal it away?
Why do we have to suffer to know that suffering is not necessary? I think we are inclined to look outside as children because we are helpless then.
We may resort to this behavior when the stirrings of falling in love get aroused, and we start to feel an impulse to cling to that which we love, or want to be loved by. I think to see that this impulse is just an impulse and not our awakened self, is part of the self-discovery.

The imagery of the galaxy in my heart with a mantra: "The cosmos is in my heart." Makes my life beautiful.

(John...that will be Ms. T to you!)

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Re: We can recover and grow from limerence.

Post by David » Thu Dec 03, 2015 7:53 am

Seems like i am driven to post an update here whenever i return from staffing on a ManKind weekend.

This week marks 1 year of NC and almost 5 years since LE started. College had its first annual reunion a few nights ago and perhaps that too was playing on mind. I declined to go for reasons you guys will appreciate.

These ManKind weekends stir up a lot of difficult and painful feelings. Talking with other men where there are no manly con-games that us men use with other men is so refreshing. I have heart to heart connection with other guys. I am learning what if feels like to love and be loved without the energy of carnal desires getting in the way.

I know these weekends trigger my attachment wound like nothing else. The difference now is i can feel a gap widening between having these feelings and looking for the distractions to avoid being with them. I can see how over the past decade my coping strategies were wearing down. Initially it was an addiction to work and power, then spending money and when these were failing i found the motherlode of distractions, limerence. Now that no longer has an effect, i am left with myself.

At an unconscious level, SO spreading her wings and developing her own career must also be triggering some of my insecurities. And added to that, a second extended period of NC with my FUFOO is creating more head space for me to process. I now feel my sadness, being alone, an internal emptiness. I have nothing left to come in and fill that void, the hole in my soul. I see through all my distractions as just bullshit I've used to prevent myself from being with myself. And yet, i feel a strength in this space, in my vulnerability. I feel OK though, its different to the depression i grappled with when i was in the midst of my LE.

As others have written here, i am permanently changed from this experience. Developing such intense feelings for another and choosing to not act on them has been one of the most challenging and drawn out things I've faced. Sitting with the not knowing has been challenging. Learning to talk more openly about my feelings, fears, insecurities and inner demons with SO has been hugely challenging. Going NC from LO was challenging. Staying NC with my FUFOO remains challenging. Continuing my own healing remains challenging. Touching my grief is intense and heart wrenching.

Growing from boy to man, individuating, stepping into my leadership is not easy. It is the price i've had to pay to let go of my co-dependency, my pathological romantic jealousy, my people pleasing, being aware of when im slipping into the victim, persecutor or rescuer, seeing my addictions for what they are, and being aware of when i'm looking to the (attractive) feminine to save me.

As i wrap this up, i am left with something about being seen. Running this forum gets me seen. Writing this update gets me seen. Coming from a narcissistic family, i was never seen. One of the things that stuck with me was LO saying she saw my soul. Maybe thats what was so compelling about the experience. I felt another human being really saw me. Perhaps she saw that wounded part of me that I had kept so protected and hidden. Hmhh :-? , i need to reflect on this.
"Until you make the unconscious conscious, it will direct your life and you will call it fate." - C.G. Jung

For Professional Coaching / Therapy see http://loverelations.co.uk/limerence

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Re: We can recover and grow from limerence.

Post by Whiterose » Fri Dec 11, 2015 2:42 am

We all feel the need to be 'seen', don't you think?

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David
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Re: We can recover and grow from limerence.

Post by David » Fri Dec 11, 2015 8:08 am

Whiterose wrote:We all feel the need to be 'seen', don't you think?
Yes, i agree, we are social animals and want to feel we count, that we matter. For me, its how we go about getting seen. Do we manipulate others, are we projecting a false self, how self aware are we in the process of being seen? With my own limerence, i was being manipulative, selfish and egocentric in trying to get my own needs met of being seen.
"Until you make the unconscious conscious, it will direct your life and you will call it fate." - C.G. Jung

For Professional Coaching / Therapy see http://loverelations.co.uk/limerence

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Re: We can recover and grow from limerence.

Post by JohnDeux » Fri Dec 11, 2015 5:46 pm

Re: "Being seen"

Yeah, this is a tough one. For me it seems to come down to motivation although grey areas still exist. For instance, am I going down to the water cooler at work to "socialize" as is a core human trait, or get my ego stroked in a less-than-healthy way. Where is that cut-off and what to do with situations where, retrospectively, I realize it's been the latter? But good question, Whiterose and good topic for discussion.
"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain...."~ The Wizard of Oz

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the need for hope

Post by David » Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:41 am

Wow - another year gone since i last posted an update on my own journey. :-o Where does the time go?

A few unconnected ramblings follow as a way of a data dump. Apologies for the disconnectedness.

This week marks exactly 6 years since meeting LO and over 2 years of total NC, apart from a couple of snatched FB peeks and google searches (fortunately there is not a lot on there for me to gorge on).

I read my journal yesterday from when L first kicked off. OMG - was i unconscious. :oops: Chock full of projections and unawareness. It helped me appreciate how far ive travelled in the past 6 years.

Most days LO doesnt cross my mind although there have been one or two dreams with her making a guest appearance. I wake up thinking, wow, limerence really is tenacious. The total NC has helped the memory fade although i can still go back to the euphoric recall with certain triggers. Im under no illusion that contact with LO would reignite the furnace, likely always will however much personal development work i do. I think i'll always carry a small flame for her - how could i not given the profundity of this experience.

Growth hasn't been easy - the first few years of limerence were the most turbulent of my life. I know life will throw me more challenges. With increasing age, loss and bereavement is looming on the horizon. I feel I am now better equipped to deal with such events, however painful they may be.

And yet my parental rescue fantasy continues - perhaps it always will and thats OK. I know this part of me well, I have compassion for this part and just observe my pull to the magical other without feeling the need to act out.

And there is something i'm learning around intimacy. Yesterday I shared a beautiful morning with a gay male friend 10 years older than me. He is teaching me much about how to be connected with another human at a heartfelt level without the need for sexual desire to get in the way. Same goes for SO, her understanding of intimacy has many shades, always has done. I am left with the question, is it possible to have an intimate connection with someone where there is a physical attraction however much growth we have done? And what is physical attraction all about? What makes beauty in the eye of the beholder?

Next week I facilitate a session on intimacy at a ManKind elders gathering. I shall share some of my story there as a way of encouraging others to open up and show themselves and allow others to see into them (Intimacy = InToMeSee).

I was chatting with a therapy friend a few days ago and we were talking about how important it is to give clients hope. I hope my story can give some hope to others.

As we say in MKP "The journey continues"

Aho
"Until you make the unconscious conscious, it will direct your life and you will call it fate." - C.G. Jung

For Professional Coaching / Therapy see http://loverelations.co.uk/limerence

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